At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment, and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Alison Whritenour, Chief Executive Officer at Seventh Generation, about her journey from traditional marketing to corporate social responsibility, her concerns about this moment in ESG, and how her hope that Seventh Generation’s new approach to CSR reporting will provide the blueprint for its future.

Greg Behrman, CEO + Founder, NationSwell: How did your personal and professional journey to the field of ESG begin?

Alison Whritenour, CEO, Seventh Generation: My career kicked off in traditional consumer packaged goods fashion at Colgate-Palmolive. It’s a wonderful company, and I learned tremendously, but during that time, I realized that many of the things I was interested in weren’t being addressed from a brand and product perspective. At the time, sustainability wasn’t really a hot topic yet, but it was undeniably where all my passions lay. I was thinking about things like non-toxicity, having fewer chemicals, how a product’s ingredients interact with human health. 

Following those interests gave me my way in: I started exploring how I could apply my passion for brand management to companies I personally believed in and used in my own life. On a whim, I applied through a LinkedIn post to Seventh Generation, which I hadn’t heard much about. They were in Vermont — far from home.

Seventh Generation invited me to come up for an interview, so I went. I spent a day at the office I now work in, and I met incredible people who are, at their core, genuinely interested in changing the world and in thinking about doing business differently.

I was applying for a junior level in the organization, so it was a significant decision to take the job considering I’d be moving my whole family to Vermont. But I was inspired by the idea that business could be done differently from what I’d learned in school — from even what I’d seen at a large company. So I thought, “Why not take this chance? I can always go back.”

People often talk about gut instinct, and I tend to rely on it. That’s how I entered this field. It’s funny because people now ask how I got into ESG or CSR. I tell them, “I didn’t!” And that’s the truth. I just loved the company and what it stood for. Along the way, I’ve learned a lot about what those concepts actually mean and the impact they can have, but a lot of it wasn’t formalized when I started in this space more than 10 years ago. It was genuine interest that led me to this work, and it’s really been what’s driving me ever since.

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you define this moment in ESG?

Whritenour, Seventh Generation: This stage concerns me. We’ve seen many companies adopt ambitious goals, and communicate them to the world. But then what happens to those amazing goals? They shift, they get scaled back, or they just don’t materialize. I’m not seeing the accountability that we need to make sure that business is going to be a driving force in solving the environmental challenges of our time. This is the most urgent moment for our environment, and the combination of big goals not materializing and very real challenges facing business leaders and consumers is a collision that’s really getting in the way of impact and action.

I hope that a company like Seventh Generation can continue to be a great proof point that sustainable practices are possible despite various circumstances. We aren’t a huge company, but what we can do is really influence and punch above our weight class. And that’s really where we see the magic is helping move the big guys along who are going to have the most impact.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some initiatives you and your team are driving at Seventh Generation that you think are noteworthy or that show promising signs of advancing the field?

Whritenour, Seventh Generation: There’s often a misconception that sustainability or corporate social responsibility (CSR) occurs in isolated environments. I have the privilege of running a company that was essentially founded on the idea of CSR. We have a genuine mission to transform the world into a healthier, more sustainable, and equitable place, and this guides all of our decisions. We have a rigorous set of product standards and practice radical transparency both internally and externally. 

We are a B Corp, and all of those things were here before I got here, before many of us got here. It’s in the DNA of the company to really serve as an example of what happens when CSR isn’t a standalone concept or an afterthought, but when the business itself is actually born from the idea of doing more than just delivering profit to shareholders, but truly standing for people, planet, and profitability. That’s how we run the company, that’s how my predecessors ran the company, and that’s how I’ve inherited the role. 

It’s a really important part of how this works because when I think about sustainability teams or CSR teams in bigger organizations, I think they’re often just considered around big decisions — you get their inputs, maybe you consider them, maybe you don’t, and then you just do what you were going to do already. 

But at Seventh Generation, our chief impact officer, the leader of our corporate consciousness — which represents advocacy and sustainability — sits on our leadership team. It’s a powerful reminder that you can’t make the easy decision. 

One key approach that sets us apart is the way we think about storytelling: We need everyone to understand the sustainability of our products the same way that they would understand the science of our products or what products claim to do. So for our marketers, your job is to innovate sustainability forward, all while finding a way to continue to hold our product standards as you do that. And that’s true across every function, but it really becomes the ethos for how these really hard decisions are made because there’s no shortcuts here. It’s all of our jobs.

In 2022, we came out with what we’re calling our Fingerprints report, which is truly the next generation of CSR reporting. We did our first CSR reporting in 2004, and we were one of the only companies to really do that at the time, so we’ve been in this for a while, and we’ve inspired a lot of Fortune 500 companies to do the same. But this year, we were really grappling with the question of what does the future of CSR reporting, of work like the work we’re leading, actually look like? 

It led our team down a path of not just looking at your carbon footprint, because this really is about everything we touch. The thesis around Fingerprints is that you really follow the impact of everything you touch, not just what you create. The most tangible examples being the investments you make, the services that you invest in, where you do your banking and where banks are investing your money.

Success for us looks like one other industry partner doing this, because if they do this, it can cement this approach as the reporting of the future.

Behrman, NationSwell: To which leadership practices do you most attribute your success?

Whritenour, Seventh Generation: A few things come to mind. First, I genuinely believe in what I do. I really give a shit, and am committed to leading this company to the next milestone. If we get there, we can be a successful business model that shows the whole world that this is possible. I am purposeful in making sure I show up every day with this ethos in mind.

Second, I take the role of being an empathetic leader very seriously, and there’s power in that. If you understand where you are, then you can understand where your team and where your consumers are, and you can address their needs and concerns as though they’re your own. This human connection is critical to the work we do.

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are some leaders in the field you admire, and who inspires you on a regular basis?

Whritenour, Seventh Generation: It’s funny you should ask me that question because I’ve been asking that question to others since I came into this job. To be honest with you, I don’t know how many people are out there doing roles exactly like mine. I’m someone who deeply values female leadership, and for me, other women doing this work and leading this work are where I find most of my inspiration. That’s been a sweet spot for me: Finding other women in the climate movement who are also willing to stand up and lead a company in that direction. 

Jenna Johnson, President of Patagonia, is one of these women. As a fellow leader in the space, she’s someone out there living the operational complexity of running incredible legacy businesses that stand for so much. She’s a true champion of not only the vision for driving sustainability forward, or in Patagonia’s case, raising the bar, but also what it takes from an operating model, financial delivery, and ensuring employee well-being. I take a lot of notes from her, especially regarding the challenges she’s wrangling these days.

Winona LaDuke joined one of our community conversations, and if you don’t know Winona, she is an Indigenous frontline community member and the executive director of Honor the Earth. She’s a total badass who doesn’t hesitate to tell people what they need to do to protect the sacred land she deeply believes in. I think the radical energy she brings to conversations is amazing, and she and her tribal partners represent a remarkable commitment to being true stewards of the environment and land around them. I’ve continued to watch her.

I always follow what The Sunrise Project is up to. I think the voices of the youth right now are crucial. I’m focused on what the next generation is calling for, and their willingness to take action gives me a lot of inspiration. I tend to follow their work and actions because they’re articulating what’s needed so well right now.

I’ve also been finding inspiration from podcasts — and one I’ve been following is Michael Gervais’s Finding Mastery. As a sports psychologist, he interviews people about how they become experts in their fields from a leadership perspective, physical perspective, and mental standpoint. Although I know nothing about sports, listening to this podcast has been enlightening and has provided me with some out-of-the-box applications for myself.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. 

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment, and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Michael Kobori, Chief Sustainability Officer at Starbucks, about why this is the most crucial moment for ESG that the field has ever faced, the power of leadership companies to change whole industries, and why tapping into your employees is essential.

Greg Behrman, CEO + Founder, NationSwell: How did your personal and professional journey to the field of ESG begin?

Michael Kobori, Chief Sustainability Officer, Starbucks: When I was 17 years old, my father insisted that I apply for a scholarship offered by his company to spend the summer on a foreign exchange program. When you’re 17 years old, you want to spend the summer with your friends, not go to another country. But he made me apply, I got the scholarship, and spent the summer with a host family in Tokyo, Japan. 

Spending that time in my ancestral homeland, and even meeting some of my distant relatives, awakened in me a passion for thinking globally, and set me on a career that would lead to learning more about the world and working to understand and address the challenges facing humankind.  

As someone who has spent most of my life thinking globally, I think a lot about the Black Lives Matter protests of 2020 — it was incredible to see how these protests sparked movements all around the globe. They definitely helped me to reframe my views on social justice.

Another factor that has helped to frame my perspectives on social justice is my ethnicity. I’m a third-generation Japanese-American, and I never used to think about the fact that both of my parents, who were second-generation Americans, spent their youth in the internment camps during World War II. Growing up in the Japanese-American community, we just didn’t talk about it. But the powerful truth is that they were imprisoned by the United States government as enemy aliens.

Today, years later, my two daughters, who are much more conscious about ethnicity and diversity than I was, have awakened my personal history and sense of social justice. They and their generation are alive with discussions about justice and movements for reparations. I’m gratified to see that the Asian-American experience is part of the conversation. And it’s helped me to realize how my family’s history is such a big part of my desire for justice.

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you define this moment in ESG?

Kobori, Starbucks: I’ve been working in this field for nearly 30 years; well before we called it ESG. The work has evolved so much from those days of corporate social responsibility. And as the work evolves, the more we as a society recognize that the challenges of the capitalist system — like inequality and our environmental challenges — are reaching a head.

The current moment has been such an evolution from the early days. It has become so expansive — and as it expands, it keeps bringing more and more stakeholders to the table, including investors and regulators who are helping to change the system.  

Today, there is a clear recognition that the corporate sector is the most powerful and trusted institution in society — even more than nonprofits and governments. With this comes the urgent responsibility to address our global challenges and do our part to help build an equitable, sustainable future.

This is the most crucial moment ever for ESG. While we all try to address our companies’ footprints and the inequalities that may exist in our respective spaces, the real inflection point comes when more and more of us start realizing that we are part of a bigger system: We must ask ourselves what our responsibility is in enlisting others to help change the status quo. 

As practitioners, I think there are tremendous opportunities for us to contribute to society’s well-being and the planet. We need to think beyond our own companies and remind ourselves that the scale at which our business operates is societal and planetary. 

Currently, we are all individually addressing broader societal challenges. People ask if we are collaborating with other organizations and companies focused on the same ecosystem. It’s important to move from individual efforts to collective impact and find ways to capture this progress. When a company thinks on a wider scale, it unlocks opportunities to collaborate for the benefit of society. And collaboration is the only way we can enlist others to help restore ecosystems because, ultimately, success lies in contributing to the restoration of landscapes, which is what matters most to the planet.

Behrman, NationSwell: To which leadership practices do you most attribute your success? How do you approach getting buy-in on the work you’re driving?

Kobori, Starbucks: I’ve been fortunate to work for companies like Starbucks and Levi Strauss & Co., which have been recognized by others as leaders in sustainability. We know that the initiatives we pioneer can influence others in the industry. If Starbucks is successful in eliminating single-use cups and shifting to a reusable cup system, the industry will take notice. At Levi’s, the designers wanted to use less water in the manufacturing process. They came up with techniques to create the worn look on jeans using less water, which led to changes in the industry. Companies that manufactured washing machines began designing machines that used less water. Now, those machines are standard in every apparel factory worldwide.  

Leadership companies have the power to change entire industries. This is why I work for companies like these: We can have a broader influence on the system. 

If you find yourself at an organization that has the potential to lead and you’re facing headwinds because the organization does not have sustainability or responsibility as its ethos, you should focus on the business case for sustainability. It’s there, and it’s been demonstrated over the years — particularly for building resilience in your supply chain. 

It’s also essential to appeal to a company’s talent, especially the younger generation of employees and customers who expect sustainability and social justice from the brands they buy. When you appeal to a large swath of the workforce, that often means success is not dependent upon just one leader or executive. Tapping into your employees builds a movement for internal change that can actually have a societal impact as it starts to impact customers and communities outside of your business.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some initiatives you and your team are driving at Starbucks that you think are noteworthy, or that show promising signs of advancing the field?

Kobori, Starbucks: Corporations are often nervous about environmental and climate justice and unsure of what to do. In addition to researching and engaging with stakeholders to assuage those anxieties, I prefer to take action. For example, we’ve invested $97 million in a community solar project in upstate New York, benefiting low- to middle-income communities. 

Because of that investment, Generate, our partners in the community solar project, received a deal with New York State and identified a subsidy so that those 24,000 households actually ended up paying less for renewable energy than they were for fossil fuel-based energy — and we also provided renewable energy to all of our stores in those neighborhoods. And now that criteria is being applied as we look at all of the other renewable energy investments that our company is making. 

This investment started with Starbucks’ balance sheet cash, and it allowed us to use our profits to address social and environmental issues, which also allows us to continue to generate income from that investment.

Another notable effort is our work on reusable cups, with more than 20 pilots last year in the U.S. and internationally. We aim to phase out single-use cups and move towards more sustainable options, which will not only help us lead with our employees and customers, but across the industry.

Behrman, NationSwell: To which leadership practices do you most attribute your success?

Kobori, Starbucks: I believe in being a servant leader, supporting my team, and helping them obtain the resources they need. I set a clear vision and empower my team to develop strategies for achieving our goals, and then I support them by influencing key stakeholders, connecting the dots, and connecting people who are doing like-minded work. Being a leader means embedding the work of sustainability and social equity in the business and supporting those teams to own it. It means being a great cheerleader and a supporter of their work. 

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some peer leaders and some books that inspire your work?

Kobori, Starbucks: I greatly admire Erin Meezan, CSO at JLL, who was formerly CSO at Interface. I still think Interface does this better than anyone else, because their approach to social impact is totally embedded in what they do as a company. Janine Benyus, founder of Biomimicry Institute, also comes to mind. Janine is one of the most brilliant people I know when it comes to thinking about ecosystems, biology, and sustainability. Every time I speak with her and I think I have the answer to something, she kicks my intellectual butt and makes me realize that I’m only part of the way there.

Finally, there’s Heather McTeer Toney, who leads climate justice work at the Environmental Defense Fund. She is one of the writers profiled in one of the books I’d recommend: All We Can Save, an anthology of poems and essays by female, largely BIPOC, climate justice leaders edited by Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson and Dr. Katharine K. Wilkinson.

Reimagining Capitalism in a World on Fire by Harvard professor Dr. Rebecca Henderson is also an immensely powerful book, as is The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson, who has been called our greatest living science fiction writer. The Ministry for the Future describes a not-too-distant future where a U.N. Ministry has been created to implement the Paris Climate Agreement. And lastly, The Culture Code by Daniel Coyle is so helpful — it will always be my go-to for understanding organizational dynamics and building successful teams. 

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Starbucks is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment, and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice? 

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches. 

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Caitlin Morris, Vice President of Social + Community Impact at Nike, about this moment in ESG, the intertwining of people and planet, and the unique power of measurement not to gauge impact,  but actually facilitate it. 

Greg Behrman, CEO + Founder, NationSwell: How did your personal and professional journey to the field of ESG begin? 

Caitlin Morris, Vice President, Social + Community Impact, Nike: My journey to this field began almost by accident. I graduated from the University of Virginia during a recession, and I didn’t really know what I wanted to do next. I went to Hungary to teach English my first year out of school. 

My second year there, I worked for a consulting firm as the only native English speaker in the office, where I had some high-profile accounts. I specifically recall my secretary saving all her money to buy a pair of Levi’s, highlighting the power of American business as a force for good. But like any situation where you think you’re giving something, you get more than you give. I learned a lot from Hungarians about a diversity of worldviews, and about not taking things for granted.

After returning to the U.S. from Hungary, I worked at a consulting firm focused on capital markets development. I was drawn to the idea that we could make a difference by changing government structures to be more open and democratic through capitalism. My path was set early on, and it would eventually lead me to Nike. 

I joined Nike because of their first Community Impact report — it wasn’t because of Michael Jordan or any great sports moments, but because of the innovation they were driving around corporate responsibility. 

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you define this moment in ESG? 

Morris, Nike: I don’t really think ESG is a framework. It’s more of a collection of letters that roll nicely off the tongue. But the environmental piece of ESG is critically important, and at the same time, it often gets elevated over social without people recognizing the strong intersectionality between the two. 

I don’t disagree that we need sharp measurement on environmental factors, but people and the planet are two intertwined issues. If you don’t solve poverty and other challenges that communities are facing in their daily lives, we’re going to continue to make decisions that aren’t good for the planet. My team sits in social and community impact, so we lead with the people piece. That doesn’t mean we don’t see the intersectionality with the environment. It’s part of why we launched the Community Climate Resilience Fund, where we’re directly investing in intersectionality with the Trust for Public Land. 

My team has never been in more demand from the brand. Community used to be a “nice to have”; now it’s “table stakes” for companies. As you look at the Edelman Trust Barometer, consumers expect companies to solve problems more than they expect governments to. So, we have to have a clear point of view on which issues we take a stand on and how we’re addressing them. I feel proud that we have a team that can stick with long-term change around physical activity and supporting leaders who are working to address social justice issues. 

This moment in ESG brings so much excitement, but that excitement also brings challenges. Everyone grew up in a community, so the passion for thinking about the community component of social factors can feel quite outsized. That passion comes from an authentic and honest place, but it can be noisy, and the noise makes it difficult to maintain focus on the strategy, all while giving it enough space to

constantly evolve and emerge. The challenge is to balance the desire to keep people focused and to be flexible and responsive to current issues. 

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some initiatives you and your team are driving at Nike that you think are noteworthy, or that show promising signs of advancing the field? 

Morris, Nike: Nike has a mission, vision, and purpose — and the purpose part is relatively new for the company. This guiding principle has made our work central to the company’s operations, which is exciting. 

One of our most important initiatives began with a big framework: believing the world needed to understand the global cost of inactivity. We created Designed to Move, an advocacy play that we hoped would catalyze a movement around physical activity. For Designed to Move, the theory of change is supported by science. We collaborated with scientists to understand the various benefits that come from sports, and we learned that it’s a uniquely efficient investment — it pretty singularly combines physical literacy, emotional intelligence, and cognitive function. As the nexus of all of those things, it has been undervalued. 

So, for Designed to Move, our theory of change had two key focuses: one is integrating physical activity back into everyday life, the second is providing kids with early positive experiences in sports and play. 

At an individual level, it’s crucial to give children the ability, confidence, and desire to be active, as this sets them up for a lifetime of activity. The cycle is intergenerational — inactive adults are two times more likely to have inactive children. When we provide kids with positive early experiences in sports and play, they continue engaging in these activities. We began with a high-level macro approach, and then shifted to more programmatic work, testing innovations on the ground to gather proof points and inspirational stories. 

Another initiative I’d like to spotlight is the Nike Community Ambassador Program. This initiative excites me because it demonstrates the power of measurement and using the company’s full resources. The program involves training retail athletes to be coaches in local community organizations. What I love about this is that it was driven by insight. For instance, in Seattle, a group of Nike retailers were volunteering

at a school when the PE teacher left them in charge of 50 kids, assuming they could handle a PE class since they were associated with Nike. 

This experience highlighted the need for our teams to be better equipped as coaches in the field. The program began as a way to rally teams around the cause of getting kids active and walking our talk. We believe that quality trained coaches are critical to a child’s experience, so we can’t have untrained employees volunteering. What we didn’t expect was the incredible impact this program had on the employees and their connection to the brand. Some Nike employees may have grown up in the local Boys and Girls Club and now are returning to volunteer at a place that was meaningful to them. Others might have a master’s degree in sports science and are working retail because it was the available job. 

These employees didn’t necessarily see a future for themselves in retail, but now they’re able to use their knowledge and apply it in the community. This has unlocked a different reaction regarding their longevity with the brand. The program allows us to test our coaching materials, authentically engage with communities on a larger scale, and drive an employee engagement strategy that delivers returns to the brand. 

Behrman, NationSwell: How are you measuring and evaluating the success of your initiatives? 

Morris, Nike: Nike’s power lies in innovation and inspiration, and when we are at our best, we utilize the full power of the brand along with my team’s work on the ground. About seven years ago, we transitioned from a separate mission-based team to the company’s philanthropy center. As the company’s budget grew, so did ours, allowing us to do some exciting things. 

We’ve invested in digital tools for scaling our reach, providing resources such as coaching guides and inclusive coaching tools. We adopted a collective impact approach, focusing on local partnerships and place-based investment. This enables us to align our efforts on a city or neighborhood level and measure the impact of our work. I do think that this power of partnership at a local level is absolutely profound: You can’t get scale without first making a hyperlocal impact and measuring it properly.

Speaking of measurement, our increased budget gives us more tools to better measure our efficacy, ensuring our work is genuinely effective. With a smaller budget, you want to spend all your money doing good work. As your budget grows, you can be more honest about assessing your performance and asking, “Well, we’re doing it, but is it really working?” 

Effectively measuring our progress is new territory for us. We’ve been good at selling inspirational concepts and catalyzing movements, and now we’re prioritizing holding ourselves accountable by leveraging both internal and external tools to measure our reach. 

We’re also getting granular with measurement, even measuring the effectiveness of our tools. We’ve historically built things in partnership with experts and gained insights from users, and now we have experts examining how well our tools are being used. 

Behrman, NationSwell: To which leadership practices do you most attribute your success? 

Morris, Nike: Stakeholder engagement has been the connecting thread of my career. I make a dedicated effort to actively listen. Great leaders are excellent communicators, and communication starts with listening. That, for me, is probably my connecting thread and belief. People often ask why I stay at Nike. I stay because of our commitment to innovation and the people. I am fortunate to lead and partner with a team of 70 incredibly intelligent individuals, and my job as a leader is to be a multiplier for them, helping them do their best work. 

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are some leaders who inspire your work? 

Morris, Nike: My first choice is Shelly Omilade Bell, founder of Black Girl Ventures. Shelly is entrepreneurial, creative, and authentic in everything she does. She radiates energy and possesses the wisdom to lead her organization forward while recognizing that her role may need to change over time. It is not easy for founders to do this, and she is doing it brilliantly. 

Charlie Brown, CEO of Context Partners, also comes to mind. I’ve known Charlie for a long time and admire his work, starting at Ashoka, where the power lies in believing in individual game-changers. Charlie’s philosophy centers on the idea that no one achieves success on their own — we always do it in a community. I have learned a lot from Charlie, who has not been afraid to reinvent himself. As someone who has been consistent in my career, I am always impressed by people who take risks and change things up. 

Last but not least, there’s Maria Bobenrieth, CEO of Women Win. What I love about Maria is her constant joy. She has a saying, “Don’t get angry, get curious.” She leads with joy and innovation, changing how we support women and girls through sport. We have collaborated on our first participatory grant-making initiative outside of our employees: the ONSIDE Fund, funded by us and Puma. While there has been good collaboration on the labor rights side, there has been less collaboration on community impact. The Onside Fund and the participatory grant-making initiative, as well as the ability to co-fund with others in the industry, are fascinating. 

Alongside those leaders, I’ve also become a big podcast fan. I keep going back to “No Off Season,” a Nike podcast that features Megan Bartlett from the Center for Healing and Justice through Sport. I highly recommend it. 

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Nike is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Kate Behncken, Corporate Vice President of Microsoft Philanthropies, about the importance of tying together purpose and profit, the power of capacity-building leadership, and this moment of tremendous opportunity for social impact and sustainability leaders.

Greg Behrman, NationSwell CEO + Founder: Tell us about how your personal and professional journey led you to ESG work.

Kate Behncken, Microsoft Philanthropies Corporate Vice President: While I was a lawyer for many years working in Australia and Europe, I was presented with the opportunity to come on board as Chief of Staff for Brad Smith, Microsoft President, Vice Chairman, and General Counsel. That post gave me an opportunity to be exposed to the broader work of the company, and it was in that role that I learned about all of Microsoft’s social impact work. 

I had the opportunity to work on a number of initiatives like Kids in Need of Defense, and I think that exposure is what really lit the fire for me to get passionate about the work we were leading, the opportunity to make a difference, and most importantly, about the responsibility the private sector has to all communities.

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you think about what defines this moment in ESG?

Behncken, Microsoft: As a tech company, we see the tremendous opportunity that technology brings — the huge benefits and great potential for technology to address some of society’s biggest challenges — but we also see the pace of change, the rapid transformation that was only accelerated in the Covid era, and how this pace raises new challenges and also intensifies existing inequities in our communities.

Because of that, at this moment, there’s greater expectation on private sector leaders from everybody — employees, stakeholders, and ourselves. I would say from what I’ve seen at Microsoft, the level of energy across the company for the work we do is at an all-time high. That’s a fantastic opportunity for someone like me in my role, so the question is, how do you tap into it in the best possible way?

We view our goals through four key lenses: supporting economic growth, sustainability, trust and protecting fundamental rights, but ESG is also so broad. I think a lot of us are thinking about what this framework means, and what it’s going to do. There’s going to be more that companies will have to report on in more ways; and there are going to be more things that we want to continue to report on.

Behrman, NationSwell: What is it about your approach to ESG, social impact, and sustainability work that yields the most success?

Behncken, Microsoft: In the private sector, there’s been a historical sense that profit happens at the core of an organization, but the purpose-driven functions take place in this small department that’s separate from it. But I don’t think that’s the case. The more that companies can bring together profit and purpose, the more they’re going to be successful.  

That’s certainly not the case at Microsoft. From a people perspective, we have a multidisciplinary team thinking about how we bring together our purpose and our profit. That’s no easy task. To do that, you really need a diverse skill set. We have people from so many different backgrounds, and as with any team, that diversity makes you stronger, and makes the work better.  

One of the really unique things about Microsoft Philanthropies is a group called Tech for Social Impact, where we focus on how we help nonprofits get access to affordable technology to be able to leverage that tech to grow, scale, and reach more of the beneficiaries that they’re trying to reach. But it’s not just the affordable technology we provide — it’s often that we’re working really closely with them to help them drive their own digital transformation. We’re meeting them where they are. Some nonprofits have great mastery of their technology tools, others not as much. So we, and our partners, listen to the organizations’ specific needs, that’s what makes our model so different from a one-size-fits-all approach to helping nonprofits.

In this arrangement, we reinvest incremental profits generated from the TSI model into philanthropy, into innovation for the nonprofit sector, and into a wide range of social good initiatives. That gives us a tremendous opportunity to do more; the better TSI does, the more that we can reinvest back into the sector.

A lot of people originally thought that a non-profit sales channel in philanthropies is oil and water; they thought, “How can that possibly work?” Well, I see it work. And it’s fantastic. Last year alone, we provided $3.2 billion in donated and discounted technology – up 29% from the previous year – to 302,000 nonprofits that deliver critical services to over 1.2 billion people around the world. Over the next five years, we will double the number of nonprofits we reach with technology discounts and grants to help amplify their impact.

We’re also focused heavily on multi-sector partnerships, like our partnership with U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris’s office to deepen investments in local economies in Central America, bolstering quality of life, increasing access to work, and helping to stem the tide of migration to the United States. For this initiative, the partners worked together to map out the different “swim lanes,” and then we each focused on the one where we could have the most unique impact. 

We lead the swim lane around digital inclusion: Microsoft is focused on expanding Broadband internet access to 3 million Central American  people and providing access to digital skills learning paths to upskill workers and make them more competitive in the job market. We’re training over 100,000 Central American workers in the next three years, helping them to learn the soft, technical, and digital skills that will enable them to gain access to  higher-paying local jobs.

The partners were very thoughtful, not only about which of us could lean in to each of the swim lanes, but about how each lane supported all the others,  and then how all involved collaborated more closely with government. I think it’s a model that we might start seeing in other countries around the world. You can learn more about our work, and the other partners involved on the White House website.

Behrman, NationSwell To which of your leadership practices or approaches do you attribute your success leading the sustainability function of an organization like Microsoft?

Behncken, Microsoft: One of my core beliefs about being a leader is that leadership is about building capacity and not dependency. Of course, I’m very focused on making sure Microsoft Philanthropies is a great place to work, but I’m also really invested in how we’re helping to grow people’s careers in the space. 

I’m also a firm believer in the power of partnerships. We partner a lot with governments around the world. It’s the only way to really achieve scale with some of the work we do, like our global initiative to upskill workers in an effort to support local economies and talent pipelines around the world.

Lastly, I am a firm believer in focus, and I steer my team towards only being at the tables where we can add really unique value. If you do less, you’ll drive greater impact. That’s a journey we’re all still on.

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are some leaders in this space whose leadership inspires your own?

Behncken, Microsoft: I’m inspired by Wendy Young of Kids in Need of Defense, a great organization working to help unaccompanied minors migrating to the US. Wendy is an amazingly generous leader, and Microsoft has worked closely with KIND over many years. I’ve had the opportunity to see how she thinks about addressing systemic issues, and she’s just very on top of it. An absolutely wonderful person.

My team and I look at the work that Shamina Singh is leading at Mastercard, not just on inclusive growth but also more broadly across the whole organization, thinking about how they bring together their purpose and their profit. (Editor’s Note: Shamina Singh is a future ESG Next honoree, and will be profiled in this series at a later date.)

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some resources you recommend that have helped to fuel your leadership, professionally and personally?

Behncken, Microsoft: Caste, an exploration of how America has been — and still is — shaped by a not-so-hidden caste system, is essential reading. The author, Isabel Wilkerson, links our social system to India’s and Nazi Germany’s, and her analysis has shaped my view of the world today.

Brad Smith, who’s the president of Microsoft, recently wrote a book called Tools and Weapons, and also recently released a podcast where he speaks to leaders in business and government to look at the world’s most critical challenges, the intersection of technology and society, rural broadband, and digital inclusion. I think they’re both essential.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Microsoft Philanthropies is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals?

Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Tricia Winton, Partner and Global Head of ESG at Bain Capital, about why she thinks ESG isn’t going away anytime soon, the power of a private partnership model in advancing ESG work, and the importance of focusing on the upside while you navigate the risks and pitfalls.

Greg Behrman, Founder + CEO, NationSwell: Was there a defining experience or moment that drew you to this field?

Tricia Winton, Partner and Global Head of ESG, Bain Capital: It wasn’t just one moment. I’ve had the opportunity to be surrounded by leaders in our field and a firm like Bain Capital that believed that thriving businesses across a number of dimensions including governance, sustainability, organizational performance and culture generate higher returns as well as positive societal and environmental outcomes. I’m proud to say that Bain Capital has held this belief since its inception and before the term ESG came to fruition.  

I joined Bain Capital in the midst of the pandemic and saw firsthand the power of an organization that is sincere and engages and collaborates with a wide range of important stakeholders. I also saw our ambition to lead in this space. The goal was not to make flashy proclamations, but to drive genuine impact. You can feel that in the culture and in the work, which is very different from what I’ve seen anywhere else.

Behrman, NationSwell: What do you make of this moment in ESG? Where are we in its evolution, and how do you assess this moment?

Winton, Bain Capital: I have a long-term perspective on the evolution of the space, and I think broader socio-economic factors have only heightened the awareness of what’s expected of companies and individuals in facing some of society’s largest problems. The reality is we’re going to need more collective effort, not less.

Here’s the good news: We’re seeing progress every day. We’re seeing more and more employees who want to work at firms and companies that think long-term and holistically about their impact.  We know employees want it and we know investors want it. Ultimately, it’s a focus that is going to reward our industry and the broader business community. 

The more I see this progress, the more my conviction grows around the importance of this work. Of course, we need to address the risks our companies are facing — but it’s equally important to concertedly lean into the upside of ESG work and the lasting, positive impact that businesses can deliver. We can and must do so much more.

Behrman, NationSwell: Can you share how you and your team at Bain Capital approach ESG work in ways that are unique or exemplary?

Winton, Bain Capital:  Our full team really wanted to develop an ESG approach that has our fingerprint on it — distinctive, generative and ultimately our own. 

We’ve had four decades built on a consulting business transformation model that’s really unique in this space — and that really gives us a head start on producing authentic, exemplary work. Our goal is to invest and grow great companies, but also to do that in the right way with a very high integrity, respect for people and enthusiasm to create these businesses that thrive. Because of our consulting roots, we have the desire to work through tough problems. We’re trying to apply that same rigor and intensity to our ESG efforts, endeavoring to build out what we think is a distinctive approach to where our culture is in alignment with our values. 

That manifests throughout the five core ESG commitments we established, where we believe we can have meaningful, measurable impact over the long-term. It also manifests in the practical application of those commitments in our investments and portfolio companies, through examples like building our ESG leadership team with leaders from across our business units, organizing global teams to spot ESG trends and share learnings, and focusing on building good governance in our investments and portfolio companies because we believe that good governance is the umbrella through which ESG efforts get the right traction. We have an intentional approach there with a consistent set of practices that centers around ensuring that we are thinking about ESG outcomes with the same intensity that we have every other part of our investment thesis. 

Other examples include the convening of portfolio company leaders like our Chief Human Resources and Talent Officer monthly forums and annual summit to advance our approaches to human capital management.  In these forums, leaders review the latest strategies and tools to enhance diversity, equity and inclusion and share approaches to boost employee engagement and organizational health.

Finally, we prioritize broader stakeholder engagement with thought partners like NationSwell, Focusing Capital on Long Term (FCLT Global), Business for Social Responsibility and the Sustainable Markets Initiative to advance our sustainable investment practices, and Management Leaders for Tomorrow and the Directors Academy to really expand the pipeline of diverse talent coming to our firm and to our portfolio companies.

Those are the kinds of things we’re building out across our businesses. Soup to nuts, we think this is distinctive and differentiating.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some key opportunities you see for Bain Capital? 

Winton, Bain Capital:  There’s so much that’s been said about how we need alignment, uniform actions, and clarity as an industry. All of that would be great. But for us, here and now, we’re really focused on how we can measure and drive year-on-year improvements. We continue to build out our measurement and reporting capabilities, centering the tangible outputs that help drive our progress. And when you hear people talk about the confusion and the challenges around data measurement, the momentum of what’s possible and those tangible outcomes get lost from the discussion.

We believe that a focus on tangible outcomes helps us act on priority topics, such as our efforts to reduce our environmental footprint and engage our portfolio companies to reduce carbon. We leverage our deeply collaborative approach, and support from expert advisors to ensure decarbonization efforts are practical and relevant for our companies.  

Behrman, NationSwell: To which of your leadership practices do you attribute your success?

Winton, Bain Capital: I embrace a deeply collaborative process and I’m fortunate that our firm and our ESG team really pride itself on that.  We work to understand different points of view. We believe firmly that more perspectives on a problem will yield a better outcome. I think we are trying to be bold and we have an ambitious vision, but we have this highly collaborative approach that I feel will help us build more effective programs and drive impact over time.

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are the leaders that inspire you in personal and professional ways?

Winton, Bain Capital:  I think one of the most inspiring people to me is Paul Farmer. I had the opportunity to meet Paul on many occasions and learn more about his fundamental belief about global health equity and how important it is to advocate for human health and justice globally. With his passing, the world really lost an incredible visionary.Bryan Stevenson’s work on racial justice in America has been a constant source of inspiration for me, and he is an incredible example of how you build lasting partnerships.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Bain Capital is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Jenny Flores, Head of Small Business Growth Philanthropy at Wells Fargo, about how her experience as an immigrant in America informed her journey to human-centered banking, the unique impact of flexible capital, the importance of fearless philanthropy, and the not-so-secret powers of her approach to collaboration.

Greg Behrman, CEO + Founder, NationSwell: How did your personal and professional journey to the field of ESG begin?

Jenny Flores, Head of Small Business Growth Philanthropy, Wells Fargo: I’m an immigrant to this country; we moved to San Francisco from El Salvador when I was almost three years old. Coming to America was the promise of a better life. We were leaving a country that was war-torn and my parents knew that in America, dreams come true.

But my journey has been defined by questioning what that actually means in practice. There’s this sentiment that in America, you can do anything. But then there’s what it actually takes — that grit — to navigate an unfamiliar system and actually make something big happen.

For me, that means navigating the systems of this beautiful country alongside the people whom I ultimately want to help and serve. I went into banking wanting to learn to underwrite affordable housing because I knew housing was such an important goal for my community; having a home that is affordable and accessible is the number one priority for so many.

That’s what fuels my drive, and that’s what brought me to the industry. And in my time working within it, I’ve learned just how powerful the banking industry really is. It allows you to buy a home or go to college or start a business, so it’s at the core of enabling the American dream.  I made a very deliberate choice to stay in this industry and help influence it to better serve people like me, who have to work that much harder to become executives.

That’s the question at the core of my mission: How do I get banking to see the world through the eyes of people like me — people who may not have that natural runway?

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you make sense of this moment in ESG?

Flores, Wells Fargo: The momentum in ESG right now is going to make it extremely difficult to go backwards. The leaders of the future will need to balance profit and purpose in ways that in the past hadn’t been needed. This is no longer just about compliance — it’s about how leaders can show they’re ready to navigate the opportunities that are still nascent or evolving in a complex society.

We had a recent conversation at a town hall with our employees. We asked ourselves the question, “Are we willing to continue to double down on ESG in the face of opposition from some segments of the population?”

From my personal perspective and taking into account all of the data and the science, we need to take these factors seriously. Yes, we have our traditional oil and gas industries; and yes, they are filling a need. But we also need to transition to a way of doing things that will help a sustainable future to exist. We’re in the position to finance that, and to figure out how to scale that. And that is not something I personally think we should back down from. The banking industry is in a position to help figure out the solutions for our economy today but also for our future needs, and we’re going to do it. Our survival depends on it.

But put aside the politics and just think about it from the reality of the moment, and from the business opportunity. Any company would be foolish not to understand there is a real commercial opportunity present. ESG professionals have the ability to really influence how our understanding of this moment evolves in authentic ways that map into the business priorities that we foresee for our prospective industries: How we bring our employee expertise, how we elevate it, how we connect the dots between our business impact and our impact in the world around the issues we choose to stand by.

Behrman, NationSwell: Can you talk about some of the unique programs or initiatives that you think other ESG practitioners should know about?

Flores. Wells Fargo: Before I embark on a new initiative at any of the companies where I’ve had the privilege of working, I find that there’s this moment when I can center solutions on building equity in the system, and help executives with decision-making power to see a new or different path forward.

Speaking truth to that power is very important. About 60 days after I started at Wells Fargo, Covid came to America. I had to make a choice about how I wanted to frame the work, and I wanted to make sure that we had a shared understanding, without mincing words — not leaving anything up to assumption.

And what I said was, “The financial system as it currently exists does not serve people of color or people from diverse backgrounds well. Period.” I laid out all the reasons I’d seen in my 20-year career in banking that have made that happen, and I told my organization that though I haven’t been at Wells Fargo for very long, I would imagine that some of these reasons play out here, too. And if that’s the case, I reasoned that our response had to be very different than what we would traditionally do — because the urgent need here will grow exponentially, and it’ll grow very quickly.

Within 30 days, businesses were shutting down. The majority of those 41% were Black businesses, 36% Latino Hispanic businesses. It was very clear who was most negatively impacted.

Because of the conversations we started around driving impact for the most vulnerable and under-served , our CEO made a courageous decision: That we were going to give away all of our processing fees from participating in the first round of the Paycheck Protection Program, not even knowing what the final sum total would be.

And that’s how the Open For Business Fund started — with intention built in, and with the understanding that we should build in flexibility where, in the past, we would avoid taking quick, bold action because it was perceived as too risky. Now, we could move forward with our assumptions based in the realities of the communities we served. That’s how we designed it, and it’s been a pride point for the company ever since.

Through our roughly $420 million Open for Business Fund, we’ve reached over 178,000 businesses. 73% of those business owners are low-to-moderate income, 79% are racially or ethnically diverse, over 53% are women business owners. And you could just see the impact happening in those populations that we really sought to reach.

Behrman, NationSwell: What was the impact of those investments?

Flores. Wells Fargo: Of that money, the first $250 million was deployed as very flexible capital, which took a lot of different forms: In one example we made a grant so that the nonprofits we supported could make grants directly to small businesses; In another instance, the investment could have helped a community lender bring down the interest rate for a small business owner’s existing loan; it took a myriad of forms. Impact will be tracked through early 2025, but as of September 2022 organizations funded through the program have raised $1.7 billion dollars in grants and debt to support communities across the country — so essentially we’ve generated six times the initial investment — just based on being flexible and responsive.

The Wells Fargo dollars were catalytic because we were really fast to get into the community. The money went out as grants to nonprofits, as equity on the balance sheets of nonprofits so they could lever that money up. We focused on strengthening the balance sheet of our non-profit grantees so they were able to then absorb additional capital that they raised so that they wouldn’t be in a risky situation themselves. We also utilized loan loss reserves so that if any of those loans went sideways, they could have that on their balance sheet to protect them.

The design was really purposeful and intentional. It helped create and amplify impact. We did a lot of little things that were meaningful to support the strategies and successes of small businesses across the country.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some other examples of unique initiatives you’re helping to lead at Wells Fargo that are yielding tangible impact?

Flores, Wells Fargo: We’re also lifting up some incredible ideas that I think have the potential to change how small businesses raise money. For example, we are funding the Small Business Exchange, or SMBX, which is a FINRA-registered funding portal and public marketplace for issuing and buying U.S. small business bonds.  The SMBX team has figured out how to help small businesses be able to issue bonds so they can raise capital. And in Washington D.C., we are testing this with the mayor, providing technical assistance to small businesses who can then go on to raise $400,000 or $500,000 as part of a bond offer.

Very often, this support will go to the ideas and leaders that have so many naysayers who challenge them and say, “How are you going to do that? It’s never going to happen.” Those are the people I love to get behind. The future holds so much promise for resilient leaders like them, but we have to think differently about how we assess risk and finance innovation.

The SMBX is just a completely different way of financing businesses, and it has the power to really engage the community. So if I want to invest, get a financial return and drive social impact, I know where to go. The due diligence is completed, and I can invest in businesses in my neighborhood that are going to create jobs and build the economic base of my city.

Behrman, NationSwell: What is it about your approach to this work that has helped you to be an effective leader?

Flores, Wells Fargo: Once something gets approved, I love going full speed on it, and I love helping others reach that velocity — even if it means sitting back and letting them take the wheel. It brings me a lot of joy to see the people around me actively in pursuit of impact, and I like to empower them to take a piece of the initiative and really lead it internally, creating visibility around it. I’m not driven by getting the credit — and not being credit-driven helps bring people to the table with me because they feel like they can collaborate more authentically and freely, and it also empowers them to step up, become advocates and changemakers, and make things happen.

Getting the credit or getting acknowledged isn’t nearly as important as getting someone else in an organization to care about the problem that you’re working on, and getting them moving to work on it in their own way. That’s how change happens in organizations. It’s not one person. It is kind of a movement that happens and then you have people everywhere marching towards a bigger goal. It makes companies better. It makes the culture come to life in a different way. I can’t begin to tell you how happy that makes me.

Basically, my secret power is that I’m a huge collaborator, and I try to do so courageously. I’ll be the first to step up and try to sell something internally, and I might get kicked in the face, but it’s okay.

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are some leaders that inspire your leadership?

Flores, Wells Fargo: My dear friend Lorena Hernandez who previously headed up community impact for Comcast in California. She’s an incredible leader, and a true champion at understanding how to ingrain ESG into the core of your business. I admire the fact that she’s always collaborating with community, and doesn’t just design from her corporate office – she’s always really out there, learning and giving back.

Another person whose wisdom I often seek is Tracy Gray, who is the Founder and Managing Partner at a venture firm called The 22Fund.  Tracy is recognized widely as a multifaceted leader in social and economic equity in finance.  She is brilliant (she is also a rocket scientist) and I have her on speed dial because she is able to break down business models like no one else. I love that Tracy can see the world for what it is and also for the potential we all have to do and be better.  . She’s always thinking about what the present needs of communities are to date, and thinking ahead to how those needs will evolve in the future. I just love talking to her because I feel like she grounds me in the short term, and then inspires me for long-term thinking.

Last but not least is Jacqueline Martinez Garcel over at the Latino Community Foundation. She’s incredible. She’s such a heart-centered leader. Anytime I have the opportunity to be near her, I feel like I leave just spiritually in a different place because she is so grounded in the work, and in how people are feeling.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some resources that inspire your leadership?

Flores, Wells Fargo: I get inspired by people who are on their A Game, it doesn’t matter what industry they’re in. But I would say I am a big Beyoncé fan. She is heart, mind, soul, everything’s aligned to give you this experience where you feel like, when she’s performing in front of you, she’s singing just to you. Everyone leaves her concerts feeling that way. I’m inspired by how ferocious she is. I want to be that ferocious at impact. I want to be the Beyoncé of social impact.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Wells Fargo is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Lata Reddy, Senior Vice President, Prudential Financial Chair, The Prudential Foundation, about the importance of place-based impact, the power of anchor institutions, the next frontier for ESG measurement, and the importance of tried-and-true approaches alongside newer, more disruptive technologies.

Greg Behrman, NationSwell CEO + Founder: Tell us about how your personal and professional journey led you to ESG work.

Lata Reddy, Senior Vice President, Prudential Financial Chair, The Prudential Foundation: While I was finishing my first year of law school, I had the life-changing opportunity to work and intern with Bryan Stevenson, who is now Executive Director of the Equal Justice Initiative. I was in Atlanta at the time, and Bryan was a young lawyer right out of law school. I spent the next couple of years working with the organization he was working with, which represented people on death row and people who had been incarcerated. 

During the experience, I had the opportunity to speak with those on death row and learned how their experiences were so indicative of structural racism. It raised my consciousness and helped me understand, even as a law student, how the legal realm played a role in perpetuating these inequities, and that one day I could use my experience to address these historic and systemic injustices.

Behrman, NationSwell: How is the work you’ve been leading unique in the social impact and the sustainability field? What distinguishes you from others working in ESG?

Reddy, Prudential: Prudential started this work early, we take more risks with our capital than others do, and we stay in the work longer.

Our organization has been ahead of the curve in that we’ve thought about the work we do from an impact lens for over 50 years. Our ethos was formed in Newark, New Jersey. It’s where we were founded almost 150 years ago, and it’s where we’ve stayed, where our headquarters are to this day. 

We’ve learned so much while operating in a community that has ridden so many waves of this country’s history — and that includes the good, the bad, and the ugly. We’ve had the opportunity to engage in the community of Newark, which is our front yard, backyard, all around. 

Early on, the company bundled our resources together. It started with philanthropy, other cash giving and corporate contributions, employee volunteerism, and impact investing — long before anyone was calling it impact investing. We were spending the capital anyway, so we wanted to make sure we did it in a way that maximized impact. It morphed over the years, and we grew exponentially: about two years back, we had reached a billion dollars in impact assets under management on the impact investing side. And that, by the way, was all Prudential balance sheet money, so our own capital that we had invested in that way. We had doubled the size of our philanthropy, which for us is $35 million annually, and our total cash giving is more than that.

We do it in a place-based way in Newark, and we continue to be deeply engaged in a broader set of issues because we know that these systems are interacting with each other; through Prudential’s deep history and commitment to Newark residents, we’ve helped redefine the place of an anchor institution in its community. That effort has been transformative. We now have a larger set of institutions working together in a very concerted way, and so I think there’s a lot of stickiness to that and people are really taking to that, which is exciting to see.

It is a function of being the kind of corporation we are. We’re in the business of managing risk and pooling risk, and thinking about it over the long term. I think we all need to be taking more risks, and I would argue that it’s imperative for us as businesses to engage a broader set of stakeholders, and the only way we’re going to do that is through nontraditional stakeholders, and that inherently will involve a little bit of risk. It’s informed risk, or it can be, and you can mitigate the risk. So there’s the business imperative which is clearly a moral imperative for us to do more with our capital.

Behrman, NationSwell: What initiatives are you leading that exemplify your approach?

Reddy, Prudential: Somebody once said to me, and I love this phrase, people live their lives horizontally, not vertically. Systems interact, and you have to think holistically about a place.

Years ago, Prudential wanted to redefine what it means to be an anchor institution in Newark. So we did that by casting a wider net: We brought in cultural organizations, other corporations, universities; really, all facets of the community writ large. It was a core group of about six, and it’s grown since then. We commissioned some research to look at opportunities for us as anchors, to do some fact-finding around small businesses, like what would a procurement initiative look like, and the realization that if we just allocate an additional percentage of our spend to Newark businesses, we can exponentially impact the local economy.  

And then it grew to a hiring initiative around hiring local Newark residents, and then living initiatives — meaning, how do we get more of our employees to live in the city and have that take hold? That approach is what we’re still managing today. It started about five years ago or so, and we’ve had some great success working with Mayor Ras Baraka; we’ve actually helped him achieve some of his goals around making sure that 2,020 Newark residents had jobs at anchor institutions by 2020, which we did — and we well surpassed that number. 

That success also impacted Gov. Phil Murphy and his work with the CEO collective that our CEO is part of, especially as we looked at post-Covid recovery strategies for the state of New Jersey. So some of what we did in Newark is now a part of the state’s strategy, so we were able to grow it there.

Berhman, NationSwell: What’s your take on ESG as a framework, what’s your read on this moment? How do you make sense of the field, where are we, and where we’re going?

Reddy, Prudential: This all began with negative screening. Many of us remember the time when the prevailing sentiment was, “First, do no harm.” We avoided investing in programs, initiatives, or really anything that had the potential to cause harm. 

Now, it’s moved more into a conversation where we’re mitigating risk against Environmental, Social, and Governance factors. That’s an important shift, but I’ve still yet to hear very many conversations about impact — especially around proactively and affirmatively trying to create impact in whatever we do. 

I’m hoping the shifts that brought us to this current moment will accelerate us towards that. We’ve certainly talked about it in the impact investing space, where there’s an intention to create impact alongside financial returns, so I’m hoping that other players in the social impact and sustainability field will think about it as well.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are your aspirations for the field? Where do you think it’s going, and what will drive its progress, its evolution?

Reddy, Prudential: For me, the next frontier is tying it to business value, like how do we measure the impact we’re creating in a way that’s also demonstrating business value? I believe deeply you can create business value by going after societal impact, but it’s on us to prove that out. And the more we can prove it, the more baked in to our business strategy it will be. Our field will evolve when businesses make it core to what they do, rather than something they keep on the sidelines.

Behrman: How has your leadership evolved?

Reddy, Prudential: One lesson I’ve learned, which I think every leader learns, is that you can never overcommunicate. Try to communicate the same message in different ways because it will resonate with different people at different times in different ways. It’s an obvious but important one. The other thing is, leaders look around corners — that’s our job, and we get paid for it. But doubling back to bring people along is usually necessary in helping people to move forward. Helping people to see it on their own so that they have the buy-in and taking the necessary time to do that is really important as well.

I’ve found that having a “true north” for what you’re trying to get to is what has helped cut through the noise, this audience today, the messaging, so that at the core, it’s the same, and it’s based on what you believe and what you’re trying to execute against. And then on the margins you can modulate to the particular audience.

My true north is about leveling the playing field. That’s what I think about when I think about my personal purpose.

Behrman, NationSwell: What is one thing you think folks are really missing? Anything you would move people a couple degrees over on?

Reddy, Prudential: I think in some ways people are often looking for the next shiny object, the next innovation, the next disruption. That’s very intellectually exciting, but when you talk about a specific place, it’s quite often the tried and true. It’s building authentic relationships. It’s engaging the very people who know best about what’s needed, it’s about an asset framing — so not talking about the problems, but framing it all through what a community has, and the opportunities to make that even better.

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are some leaders you really admire in the space?

Reddy, Prudential: Paul Polman, author of “Net Positive” and former CEO of Unilever. I think he’s done so much for this notion of purpose, and really having purpose as a core part of your business as your brand. Under Ajay Banga’s leadership, Mastercard did some really great work, and they were very clear about the purpose, clear about the fact that change needs to be brought about through business. When you have the vision and the clarity, everything else just falls into place.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Justina Nixon-Saintil, Vice President and Chief Impact Officer at IBM, about why passion and partnership are paramount to an ESG leader’s success, why engineering and corporate social responsibility work go hand-in-hand, and why the future of ESG might just be its “S.”

Greg Behrman, NationSwell CEO + Founder: Tell us about your personal and professional journey, and how it led you to ESG work.

Justina Nixon-Saintil, Vice President and Chief Impact Officer, IBM: If you told me 30 years ago when I was studying to be an engineer that I would be working on corporate social responsibility and ESG, I would not have connected the dots to see how that could be possible. My focus then was on getting a job in engineering that would let me take care of myself. I’m an immigrant from Dominica who came to the South Bronx, an area that has been challenged by its high crime rate. My mom is an educator, and she really pushed the idea that education is the way out of poverty — how we become successful, here and anywhere.

But when you think about it, what engineers actually do is solve some of the biggest problems in the world. I always loved taking things apart and putting them back together just to see how different pieces could fit, and how things worked on the inside. And in that sense, my education in engineering is directly connected to where I am and what I do today.

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you think about this moment in ESG?

Nixon-Saintil, IBM: There’s such a sense of urgency right now. When you think about how quickly technology is advancing, when you think about climate change and the urgency around it, when you think about the pandemic and its global impact, you realize this unprecedented urgency is driving everyone to figure out how you move from theory to scaling, and reaching the masses — because these pressures are impacting so many people.

You have marginalized populations who are being left behind. You have vulnerable communities who are being impacted by climate change. You have diverse subsets of the population who are still underrepresented in tech and other well-paying fields. And everyone is coming together now to say, this is not something any one company or any one entity can do alone. 

I remember going to meetings a long time ago where we would always start by identifying the problem we were trying to solve, and I would sit there and think, “We already know the problem.” It would frustrate me. What’s different about this current moment is you don’t have conversations like that anymore. It’s not a discussion about what the problem might be, it’s a move to determine how we scale and invest and actually solve the problems that we know exist.

Behrman, NationSwell: Where do you see the field going next, and what’s driving that shift?

Nixon-Saintil, IBM: I just read that almost half of Fortune 500 companies have made an aggressive commitment to reach carbon neutrality in the near future. And it made me think, what does a commitment like that look like for the S in ESG? 

I think you’re going to start seeing a lot more excitement and focus on social factors like human capital management. We’ll still talk about the E and the G, but when we do, we’ll approach it from a way that always straddles the S — like the just transition, or how companies are thinking about the vulnerable communities they impact as part of their net zero commitments.

But along with this excitement, there’s anxiety. So many business leaders are waiting to know more about how we’ll be regulated. A lot of ESG reporting up until this point has been voluntary — ours at IBM has. But we know mandatories are coming, and more will come, and everyone is waiting to see what will be expected of us. I don’t think anything will come as a surprise — especially if you’ve been doing work like this for a while — but I do think we all want to know more about the shape of the landscape.

And where there’s anxiety and excitement, there’s opportunity. Companies and organizations that are thinking through this are looking to us to help solve challenges with them, and we’re excited to partner. 

Behrman, NationSwell: Can you tell us about some initiatives at IBM that are exemplars of your approach?

Nixon-Saintil, IBM: When I started at IBM, there was so much goodness across the company. There were so many things we were doing in the environmental space, in the social space, in the governance space, but at the time, there wasn’t a comprehensive way of communicating this work and making sure that we brought even more awareness to it.

In 2022, we launched our ESG strategy, a framework called IBM Impact. And that was a new initiative for us as a business. I’ve been really proud of this because when you just talk — whether it’s external to investors, internal to your team or to clients — it’s really easy to talk about our framework, our ten commitments that are exemplars that we are going to continue to demonstrate progress against, and it really leads to further conversations, because it’s so much easier to understand how it all fits together. 

I also lead our IBM Sustainability Accelerator, a new initiative my team launched in 2022 that leverages the solutions, software, and expertise of our business around data, and the environmental intelligence suite around our hybrid cloud, and how we bring those solutions and software to non-profit organizations in order to support vulnerable communities that are most impacted by climate change. So we are really excited about the work that we’re doing in the sustainability space. 

The last initiative I want to highlight is the IBM SkillsBuild. Last year, we made a commitment to skill 30 million people by 2030, a huge and ambitious commitment. I felt we needed a north star as a company, because we’ve been a leader in the work that we’ve done around education, skills, badging, and credentials — 50% of our job postings do not require applicants to have a four year degree requirement, a barrier that has left so many populations struggling to find employment opportunities. 

When we looked at all of the work we’re doing across the board, I felt like we could make a significant commitment to skill 30 million people globally. And in fact, last year we we reached around 3.5 million people. It’s just something we can do only with partnerships on the ground, with non-profit organizations, with academic institutions that are closest to the people that we want to impact. So I’m just really excited about those three things.

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you approach social impact and sustainability work? What distinguishes or differentiates you from some of your peers?

Nixon-Saintil, IBM: First, there’s my passion; it’s a must in a role like mine. The most successful people who drive this work are those who are passionate about how business can solve issues like these.  The second thing is, I approach this from the point of view that these problems are solvable through your strategy, which means you have to understand how your company makes money and does business.

Behrman, NationSwell: Can you tell us about some leaders whose work you really admire?

Nixon-Saintil, IBM: I came to IBM under CEO Arvind Krishna’s leadership, and I’ve been impressed with his focused and thoughtful leadership. And that way of thinking has permeated through the whole company. I would say another person is Rose Stuckey Kirk, Chief Corporate Responsibility Officer at Verizon. I learned so much from her about how to “walk the halls” to get the alignment on the things you want to create and move forward, and how to communicate impact so people can understand what you’re doing in a clear and transparent way.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. IBM is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Letitia Webster, Managing Director + Chief Sustainability Officer, Merchant Banking Division, Goldman Sachs, about what the precipice of this moment in ESG means for sustainability leaders, the importance of integrating corporate social responsibility across your entire business, and the leaders that inspire her. 

Greg Behrman, CEO + Founder, NationSwell: How did your professional and personal journey lead you to the field of ESG, social impact, and sustainability?

Letitia Webster, Managing Director + Chief Sustainability Officer, Merchant Banking Division, Goldman Sachs: When I lived in Telluride, there was a film festival they held called the Telluride Mountainfilm that celebrates important stories that need to be told within mountain communities — by and large, stories that celebrate a vibrant mountain culture with a focus on the environment and and on how it affects our most vulnerable populations. 

It helped to open my eyes to global injustice. I was very young — just out of college, and it informed my perspective. I was running a small non-profit in the region focused on the environment, and it became clear to me that I needed to make this more of my career path. I moved to the Bay Area, worked at The North Face, and while that was fun, I realized that what we were marketing — these big, pristine, wild places — was actually not what was happening in our supply chain, not just at The North Face, but in general across all products and sectors outsourcing to Asia. So I started the sustainability program at The North Face and it’s been my journey ever since.

Honestly, I’ve been passionate about this work since I was a child. It’s in my blood, and it’s so intuitive to me. It always pained me when I saw trees being chopped down for developments — I’d always wonder who was speaking up on behalf of the environment? Where are the birds going to go, the deer, everything that depends on them being there? 

But as I became more sophisticated and understanding of all of the unintended consequences and the ramifications of this work, it became crystal clear to me that there actually was no one speaking up, there was no voice in so many places for communities and the environment that were being impacted by decisions like that.

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you make sense of what this moment means for ESG and its field builders?

Webster, Goldman Sachs: We’ve made a remarkable amount of progress in 25 years,  but there’s highs and lows through all of this. Obviously, the publishing of Silent Spring was a significant milestone in turning the tide and raising awareness on these issues, and designating Earth Day was a big high. But there are big lows that come out of it as people lose focus and competing interests take over.

Sustainability has always been based in the science of what is actually happening to human and environmental health. Unfortunately, the science argument was not always understood from an economic perspective — but the science does impact the economy. And so it’s only been a recent development that we’ve started to see the sustainability argument become rooted in the business argument. You start to understand the cost of these externalities, how they impact your business, and how you approach embedding those material risks in your financial considerations.

When Covid hit, people were worried sustainability would take a backseat, and in fact it only heightened awareness of it. As our country has grown more divided in recent years, sustainability leaders have had to navigate an even more complex environment. Despite this, the reality of the increasing intensity of the impacts taking place are actually motivating investors and businesses to go even faster.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some other factors driving movement in the field?

Webster, Goldman Sachs: Organizations like SASB have helped to evolve this work, making it more sophisticated, accountable, and transparent; while social media and NGOs helped amplify a broader sense of what’s happening in the world, from who makes our clothes to the carbon intensity of our beef, and now there’s a groundswell of consumer support for sustainability — and pressure on organizations to be more sustainable as their awareness grows more heightened.

ESG is maturing as a practice.  Companies have come along with it as have consumers.  Investors are at this precipice where they now understand the issue and their role in it. This heightened focus from investors is creating a tsunami of effort and impact as firms organize around this to integrate it into their investment approach and practices.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some of the challenges?

Webster, Goldman Sachs: Sustainability work and the knowledge around it were very isolated at first. Now, it’s opened wide up and there is a deep desire to understand it, integrate it, and do something about it.  However there is a proliferation of frameworks, reporting requirements, and regulations. These are not always aligned; they can cause a great deal of inefficiency and be unproductive, which is causing a bit of chaos in the system.  

We need a more focused and targeted approach globally. We need clarity on expectations and reporting, just as there is guidance on general accounting principles and SEC reporting. Otherwise we fill out spreadsheets and questionnaires all day long, and don’t have time to do the real work to improve on our impact.

We have to get to that point because we’ll be able to consolidate the most material issues, and we just have to be able to focus. Really clear, crisp policy is the most important thing, and I think that includes a carbon tax.

In this moment, we are seeing these macro forces underscore the importance of integrating even deeper. We just need to stay focused on the task at hand. 

Behrman, NationSwell: What is it about your approach that differentiates you from your peers in sustainability?

Webster, Goldman Sachs: My approach, which has been refined over years of coaching and mentorship, tries to bring people to make this work inclusive and welcoming. I think that’s a really important piece of success in this field.  At the end of the day, sustainability has to be embedded into every single business function. It cannot be a standalone, isolated leadership activity where we are taking ownership or control of all of the work. It has to be dispersed, and it has to come from servant leadership — a leadership that is humbled by everything that must be done, a leadership that is visionary about where we need to go and how we get there, and a leadership that understands the goals of all key stakeholders and how this work benefits the business.

And so, it has to play this careful balance of bringing people in to that shared vision that we have and inviting people in to join us and then supporting those people in that journey and making sure everyone is part of it and understands their role in doing so.

My passion and commitment have been my fuel — this is really hard work, there’s no doubt about it. Especially 15 years ago, when doors were slammed in your face and no one wanted to hear from you. We had to literally kick the door down, but now people are more prepared. The challenge is making sure they’re listening to it in a way that they can absorb, in a way that they can engage with. You can’t lecture them, you can’t shame them, you can’t fear them.

For me, it’s all about letting your personal purpose guide your approach to your work. And personal purpose is all about three concentric circles. One is, what are you best at in the world? The second is, what are you passionate about — for me, that’s sustainability and giving people a voice. And then the third is, what does the world need from you?

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are some leaders whose work inspires you?

Webster, Goldman Sachs: I had the opportunity to see David Brower, the founder of the Sierra Club, speak right before he passed away. Listening to his stories — and the perseverance and grit that he had — it was just phenomenal.  For those earliest of environmental leaders to have that level of vision and commitment, is something I am in awe of and so grateful for.

Bill McDonough is a profound thinker whose work, specifically Cradle to cradle when it came out in 2004, transformed the way I thought about Sustainability and  how we can approach the opportunity for systemic change.  It was pretty revolutionary of him to go back to these ancient concepts of turning waste streams into nutrients for new products- he modernized the concept of a circular economy.  And, what he did to completely green the Ford River Rouge Truck Plant was fairly revolutionary  – it set the new standard.  He’s fantastic.

And a bit closer to home, I’d also have to say Hannah Jones. When she became the chief sustainability officer at Nike, it showed me that  I could do this work as my full time career, it didn’t have to something I pursued on the side.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Goldman Sachs is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.