At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment, and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Shamina Singh, Founder and President of the Mastercard Center for Inclusive Growth and Executive Vice President of Sustainability at Mastercard. We spoke with Singh about the “S” in ESG, her commitment to continued learning and service, and the power of leaning into the urgency of the moment.

Greg Behrman, CEO + Founder, NationSwell: How would you make sense of this moment in ESG? 

Singh, Mastercard: It’s an exciting time for sure, but it’s a time that’s born out of crisis. We face monumental climate issues and rampant income inequality on a global scale. This moment demands that practitioners maintain focus on what we’re genuinely aiming to solve.

It’s encouraging to see everyone across the spectrum trying to figure out how to get it right; but as investors, companies, politicians, and governments are all grappling with what ESG means for them, we have to remember that each group has its own unique incentives and roles. The task at hand is balancing these different perspectives, creating a unified approach, and maintaining urgency among lots of different stakeholders. 

Behrman, NationSwell: How is the field of ESG evolving? What’s next?

Singh, Mastercard: What comes next is the private sector continuing to navigate an increasingly dynamic regulatory environment. Between the EU and the US, requirements for measuring corporate climate impact will require greater resourcing and administrative attention. At the same time, more communities are experiencing climate change directly and in real time, managing mitigation and adaptation simultaneously. It’s that intersection of climate change and the related economic impact that’s on the agenda now.

There’s broad agreement about how we measure an organization’s environmental factors and impact, but we’re still in the sense-making stage when it comes to social factors. Current measures don’t capture the impact of private sector initiatives like financial inclusion, relief and aid tied to the war in Ukraine, and the development of COVID-19 vaccines. The thinking about how to measure what businesses do in the social impact space keeps changing, so even companies that have been doing this work for a while face the shifting challenge of how to capture and report their impact. 

Looking forward, there’s an opportunity to embrace standardization around the ‘S.” If we don’t, and if it continues to shift, there’s a chance that practitioners might deprioritize these efforts, particularly as the regulatory focus on environmental factors continues.

We can apply the best practices that have been used to standardize environmental factors to communicate social impact measure — and that’s one of the things we’re proposing at the Center for Inclusive Growth: a framework for the social factors that mirrors the environmental, which might help companies and other stakeholders to tell their story around the ‘S’ as clearly as they do around the ‘E.’  

The Greenhouse Gas Protocol Corporate Standard offers a model. In this protocol, Scope 1 covers the emissions that companies directly control, Scope 2 covers emissions associated with a company’s energy consumption, and Scope 3 covers the indirect emissions generated through the company’s supply chain.  We could use a parallel structure for social impact standards. Scope 1 could include the direct social impact of a company’s policies on its own employees. Scope 2 could account for how a company’s core competencies – like products, services, and work within supply chains — address societal challenges. And Scope 3 could encompass philanthropic giving, grants, and other community investments. 

This is a conceptual starting point, but the idea is to create a framework that quantifies the work companies are doing that provide a positive benefit to society.

Behrman, NationSwell: What’s unique about the work you’re leading? What are some approaches, strategies, or practices you’re deploying that other field builders should have visibility into?

Singh, Mastercard: There are three aspects of our work I’d like to call out. 

First is the unique framework we’ve established around creating impact. Though the Center is housed within Mastercard, we conduct independent research. It’s important to build our programs on an independent evidence base. The goal is to understand and utilize the assets of the company for social and environmental benefit, and to share that approach with the world. For us, this involves identifying and using Mastercard’s resources to progress toward these ends, and then ensuring our corporate activities are informed by these crucial issues. It’s the recognition that our business success depends on a healthy planet with an inclusive economy, and that we do well by doing good.

Secondly, as a company with extensive data assets, we recognize that data science can be harnessed for better decision-making—but unfortunately, social sector organizations are not building data capacity at a rate that will allow them to capitalize on a new data economy. 

In 2019, we established a program dedicated to building the field of data science for social impact. This initiative aims to enhance the social sector’s capacity to harness the power of their data. In partnership with the Rockefeller Foundation, we created data.org—an organization dedicated to building data science capacity around the world. Our aim is to close the information inequality gap, the growing divide between those who have data and those who don’t.

The third highlight is our focus on small businesses through a global initiative called Strive. We know that small businesses are the engines of the economy, and we are putting our assets to work to support their success. Strive supports businesses with a propensity for growth, and we focus our support in three areas: capital, digital transition, and market access. 

Behrman, NationSwell: Tell us about the Center for Inclusive Growth. How has it evolved?

Singh, Mastercard:  In modern corporate America, social impact isn’t always treated as a central business strategy. The Center for Inclusive Growth seeks to change that narrative by harnessing our company’s resources to generate meaningful change, primarily through a focus on financial inclusion. 

We founded the Center with clear principles for our work, all of which is rooted in evidence-based methods for applying the insights, impact, influence, and investments we have at our disposal.

Thinking about ESG, the Center’s role grows more critical. Many companies have a c3 foundation or an impact fund along with their primary business. The Center brings together these elements and helps determine the most effective application for philanthropic capital and business assets. 

Behrman, NationSwell: What leadership practices have helped you operate effectively?

Singh, Mastercard: I act upon the deep sense of urgency that I feel. It’s simply not acceptable to me that people are suffering, particularly in a world that’s rich with technology, medical advancements, and information. Yet, these resources aren’t being shared widely enough.

You see this sense of urgency reflected in the Center’s philosophy of creating networks. The premise is simple: One’s place of birth shouldn’t dictate their life’s trajectory. This concept of mobility resonates deeply with me. I believe everyone should have the opportunity to fulfill their potential.

Behrman, NationSwell: Is there anything you’ve read, watched, or listened to that has inspired your leadership?

Singh, Mastercard: There’s a book by Sendhil Mullainathan called Scarcity that has profoundly influenced my thinking. The book offers a nuanced and illuminating view on poverty, showing that people with limited resources are often excellent decision-makers because, from necessity, they’ve learned to operate in an environment of scarcity, not abundance. The goal then should not be to instruct them on what they should do, but to help them expand their bandwidth and time.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Mastercard is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment, and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Shannon Schuyler, Chief Purpose and Inclusion Officer at PwC, about the importance of an organizational North Star, why there’s no more safe zone for having difficult discussions about society at work, building coalitions with unlikely allies, and why going deep is sometimes better than going wide.

Greg Behrman, CEO + Founder, NationSwell: Can you tell us how your professional and personal journey led you to the work you’re leading?

Shannon Schuyler, Chief Purpose and Inclusion Officer, PwC: As our organization’s Chief Purpose and Inclusion Officer, my team and I are responsible for PwC’s purpose initiatives, which include corporate social responsibility, philanthropy, and ESG-related considerations. We’ve always been purpose-driven as an organization, but what someone means when they use the word “purpose” has been in a state of flux, which can make it a challenge to maintain understanding and alignment around it. 

When my team began 26 years ago, we had a traditional definition of what we meant by purpose: Our purpose was to protect the capital markets. And while that’s an accurate summary of what we do, to me, it begs an even more profound question: Why do we do it? What is our North Star — our guiding principle — that encourages us to make the investments we make and take the actions we take? 

PwC’s North Star is building trust in society and solving important problems by advancing real progress on some of our communities’ most urgent challenges. And it’s my task to align that traditional sense of purpose with our North Star through the ways we approach ESG to solve these problems. And although ESG issues aren’t traditionally seen on the same level as protecting capital markets, they’ve now gained equal importance — and the urgency around them continues to evolve. 

That may not sound to you like your typical professional services firm, but that’s the difference that distinguishes and defines us: our need to be more innovative and creative. Because if we’re not actually solving the important problems, really, why do we do what we do at all?

Behrman, NationSwell: How would you make sense of this moment in ESG? How has the field evolved, and where is it going?

Schuyler, PwC: 20 years ago, leaders who cared about environmental and social problems were frustrated with the little action we saw. We all wondered when more people — more leaders of more organizations — were going to recognize the importance of these issues, and the profound longevity of these challenges. We all asked ourselves why more people weren’t taking action to solve problems that our children, and their children, will face one day. We all hoped more would join us in taking action, because that was the only way we’d ever stand a chance in actually driving progress. 

This is a textbook example of being careful what you wish for, because today, with ESG, we now find ourselves in the exact place we all envisioned. And now that we’ve arrived, we realize that things aren’t as clear as they look in the rearview mirror. Back then, we thought it was as simple as contributing to a philanthropy and that’s it — job done. However, we now understand that these issues are pivotal to the sustainability of our planet and society; they concern our collective ability to ensure the continuity of life, our economy, and our progress. The stakes are high and the path uncertain. People are eager for definitive answers, but the reality is we’re creating solutions as we go, with our work on full display for all to see.

It’s a daunting challenge, made even more daunting by the rapid pace of change. Consider this: It took more than a century to develop our current systems of financial statements and planning, but we’ve only had 15 years to learn how to account for carbon. The speed of these developments is remarkable, and the margin for error is slim. It’s a monumental task, but it’s exactly where we wanted — and needed — to be if there was any hope of making an actual difference for future generations.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are the pitfalls and concerns of where ESG is going — and what’s the promise of what can come next?

Schuyler, PwC: It’s really fascinating how our professional environment — not just at PwC, but really the modern workplace — has changed over time. I’ve been with the firm long enough that I remember when subjects like politics and race relations were just not discussed within the workplace. These were topics reserved for personal time — like maybe a heated Thanksgiving debate — but certainly not something addressed daily at work.

That’s all changed. Today, these issues confront us every day, and we absolutely must address them. These issues are literally at our doorsteps and within our buildings. The sidelines have disappeared; there’s no safe zone to relegate these discussions. We’ve never done this before, but we can’t avoid it now. 

But the challenge lies in figuring out how to, in the workplace, discuss societal issues like horrific racial incidents in a way that’s respectful, appropriate, and capable of driving change; and alongside those issues, we can’t avoid talking about the reality of climate change when storms are devastating Midwest towns overnight, leaving people homeless due to insufficient resilience in these smaller cities – because the equity piece of the equation is present in both. 

It’s difficult to know how to react because these situations stir up a lot of anxiety and emotion. Trying to make decisions amid this emotional upheaval has made the task more challenging. But if there’s an upside, it’s that the urgency of these issues has become more apparent. People can’t ignore what they see on the news or what’s happening in their cities. They may not like it, but they can’t pretend it’s not happening. The issues are too glaringly apparent.

Some practitioners say, “ESG is really a nascent field, we’re just beginning, we’ll get it right down the line.” But we don’t have the luxury of saying that we’re at the starting line anymore. We’re in the game, and now we’re forced to run plays. And the people watching us are chanting, “When are you going to score?” And they’re waiting for that score because if we don’t deliver, then they’re going to say that this isn’t valuable, and you actually can’t make a change.

People don’t want to hear, “Give me 10 years to get this run and then I can get it!” We have to get it right now. We have to be able to show that we can actually make change happen sooner than what has occurred in other industries because this has to be validated, so we can prove it shouldn’t go back to being something that only a handful of companies focus on. And if we don’t realize that, we could lose — we could go back to where we were 20 years ago.

Behrman, NationSwell: What’s unique about the work you’re leading? What are some approaches, strategies, or practices you’re deploying that other field builders should have visibility into?

Schuyler, PwC: A decade ago, the focus was on who could pledge the largest sum or reach the most people. Now, the focus has shifted towards making a deeper impact on a smaller number, rather than just reaching a mass scale with something less substantive. 

Our progression with Access Your Potential reflects this change. The focus is now on employment, on preparing people to start their careers. We’re not just providing tools for personal upskilling, which is important, but we’re also creating pathways for people to join companies like ours and others.

With Access Your Potential, we’re saying it’s not just about providing the right connections, curriculum, and visibility. We want to ensure there’s a tangible outcome — a place where you can be successful on your own terms, and find a career path for the future support through newly developed skills and network.

We’ve moved from reaching 12 million K-12 grade students and helping them to sharpen their financial literacy skills to providing deeper support to 25,000 Black and Hispanix/Latinx college students. The depth of that support includes providing them with the tools, mentorship, and financial understanding they need to find jobs that allow them to sustain their lives. We’re committed to bringing them into our firm or, if their interests lie elsewhere, helping them find other opportunities.

Another significant development is the way we approach coalition building with our competitors to drive industry-wide change. 

Our leadership with CEO Action for Diversity & Inclusion is an example of this. We’re bringing industries together, like retail or private equity, to discuss and solve common issues – with over 2,400 signatories to date. We’re collectively addressing DEI issues impacting the workplace, sharing successes and failures, and holding ourselves accountable. Now in its sixth year, this effort began with companies that had already made significant internal strides and were ready to extend their efforts beyond their own walls. By changing society, participants believe we can further advance our internal efforts.

We also have around a hundred companies ready to be part of policy change who are working together as part of CEO Action for Racial Equity. Their policy teams are  engaging in state-by-state dialogues about potential changes specifically affecting the Black community in education, healthcare, economic empowerment, and public safety. They’re spending time in the most challenging cities, working with governors and mayors, and discussing what businesses want.

Eight different topic areas are being explored by these companies. We’re not shying away from discussing politicized or controversial issues like cash bail — we’re looking at them collectively, asserting that business wants to be part of these discussions and should have a say in large bills being passed.

Behrman, NationSwell: What leadership practices have helped you operate effectively?

Schuyler, PwC: First off, I’m immensely curious by nature. A lot of what I know wasn’t taught to me in a conventional sense. I’ve gained most of my knowledge because people are now writing books and sharing information on these topics, which fascinates me. There’s always something new to learn in this ever-changing field, and I’m genuinely interested in uncovering what I don’t know and learning more about it.

Secondly, I’ve developed an incredibly thick skin over time — and that’s something I didn’t have at the start of my career. Whenever we share something with the public, I know the reaction will be split. Half the people will appreciate it, and half will criticize it. Sometimes, people even send me scathing feedback. But you know what, that’s okay. I always appreciate the input, and I can only say, “I did my best.”

The key is to not shy away from criticism. We, as a firm, have decided what we stand for and what we’re going to do. Not everyone is going to like it, but we’re open to having conversations because we want people to understand our stance. But it’s crucial that leaders remain firm in their position. It requires courage and unwavering commitment, especially since these matters are often emotionally charged. It might be tempting to hide away from the backlash, but that’s not an option if we want to make continued progress.

Behrman, NationSwell: What inspires your leadership?

Schuyler, PwC: Coalition building inspires me. I’ve always been a proponent of unity and collaboration, and it’s heartening to see people with shared interests come together, even if they don’t agree on everything. The power of these coalitions of seemingly unlikely allies is what I admire the most.

On a personal level, Adam Grant has been such a source of inspiration. The way he communicates ideas has been instrumental in shaping my understanding of the world, and helping me slow down for a bit.

With business leaders putting a stake in the ground, they become catalysts that reassure us we’re not  alone in what we were doing, in caring about what we care about.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment, and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Ali Hartman, Head of Responsible Investment at Tiger Global, about the power of building unlikely bridges, the importance of the “G” in ESG, and the opportunity for clarity and leadership in responsible investment — especially amid the current backlash. 

Greg Behrman, CEO + Founder, NationSwell: How did your personal and professional journey to the field of ESG begin?

Ali Hartman, Head of Responsible Investment, Tiger Global: My journey to this field began long before anyone was using the acronym ESG. In many ways, it began before I even knew my ABCs. You see, I grew up in a social justice activist household, where both of my parents risked their safety and comfort in pursuit of nuclear disarmament. They were civil disruptors in the Plowshares movement and were arrested and imprisoned multiple times for their activism. So I spent my childhood in soup kitchens and at meeting houses, in courtrooms and on protest lines. With that reality came a sense of responsibility to serve the greater good and an obligation to speak truth to power. Changemaking was — and is — a part of my DNA. Literally, my mom was in prison while pregnant with me. 

As a teenager and young adult, I pursued internships and jobs in the public sector and with activist organizations. These were known entities to me based on my upbringing and places I understood that I could make an impact. It was in graduate school, when I took a class called Business Ethics, that I was first exposed to the power of the private sector. 

About a month into the class, a light bulb went off for me. I realized that companies had so much capital, flexibility, access, and influence. I realized that if I wanted to have an impact that could be sustained and scaled, I had to understand how this part of the equation worked. 

Since that class, my career has spanned roles in corporate sustainability, ESG strategy, and responsible investment across big business, private equity, and, most recently, venture capital. These jobs connect money and meaning and prove that public interest and private resources can have a greater impact when they’re working together. 

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you make sense of this moment in ESG?

Hartman, Tiger Global: I’ve been doing this work for about 15 years and have seen real evolution in this space. There’s been tremendous momentum and meaningful scale during a relatively short period of time. But with that growth, we’re also seeing some confusion and chaos. We need to get clear and be intentional when it comes to defining and pursuing ESG management. 

I’m an ESG purist. What I mean by that is when I talk about ESG integration, I’m referring to the measurement and management of material environmental, social, and governance factors in the operations of a business. 

Importantly, what I’m not talking about is impact investing, philanthropy, CEO activism, or corporate values. These are each, of course, critically important. But they’re just not part of ESG strategy. For me, ESG management is about viability, not morality. 

That’s not to say what is good for the sustainability of a company isn’t good for people or the planet — it usually is. When companies are measuring and managing their inputs (including natural resources and human resources) more intentionally, strategically, and efficiently, everyone wins. From where I sit, thoughtful, strategic ESG management has become the baseline of doing business in a world that is more complex and constrained than it has ever been. There’s so much opportunity to build better businesses that are ready to manage the volatility that is here and is only going to grow with time. 

Behrman, NationSwell: Tell us about the work you and your team are leading at Tiger Global, and why it’s noteworthy or potentially even showing early signs of advancing the field.

Hartman, Tiger Global: We are still in the early innings of our work at Tiger. We have a lot more to understand when it comes to purpose building responsible investment into our asset classes and investment strategies. That said, I’m proud of the progress we’ve been making and am excited about what’s to come for us — and hopefully for the venture industry more broadly. 

In the last year and a half, we’ve established a strong foundation for what will be an evolving responsible investment strategy. Our work to date includes firm-level policies, new ESG-related diligence practices, and a suite of monitoring tools to better understand our portfolio companies and fund-level trends. 

We still have a lot to learn about how to best integrate this work into a scaled venture model — one where companies are earlier in their maturity and limited in their resources, and where investors are often passive and minority shareholders. This is a totally different proposition than the work I did in private equity. 

Nonetheless, while the challenges are real, so are the opportunities. I believe that supporting companies early in their evolution and embedding efficiency and ethics into operations from the start can have a profound impact for companies’ growth and for the world in which they operate. 

Something else I am excited about is the chance to advance this work across the venture industry. While some impact-oriented firms or emerging managers have already started to integrate responsible investment strategies into their work, there is a massive opportunity to engage the larger, more traditional firms. Without a doubt, there is both value and necessity in us working collaboratively across the industry. 

As an example, we recently signed on as a founding member of the Venture Climate Alliance alongside more than 20 of our VC peers. Over the last few years, Tiger Global has been taking steps to measure and manage our firm-level footprint, achieving net-zero status as of 2021. As we look ahead, we are excited by the challenge of building tools and resources, setting expectations, and sharing opportunity with our portfolio companies with the goal of helping them better manage the risks and opportunities posed by climate constraints. We’re also excited to help advance the net-zero conversation across the industry.

Behrman, NationSwell: What is something that you’re spending time thinking about when it comes to ESG? 

Hartman, Tiger Global: When it comes to venture, I increasingly think that there’s an opportunity to reprioritize the acronym to be GES, instead of ESG. Putting governance last in the acronym can put it last on people’s minds. While, historically, some may have seen governance as a check-the-box part of this work, it is foundational. I think governance can and should go far beyond anti-bribery or anti-corruption. 

Governance is management and management is talent. And talent is prioritized and prized by the venture capital industry. I think that if we can modernize governance and give the “G” more attention and recognition, we’ll see better outcomes in all dimensions, including companies’ abilities to engage on environmental and social issues, weather volatility, and outperform over time.

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are some peer leaders who inspire you?

Hartman, Tiger Global: I’m inspired every day by folks across the changemaking continuum. Truly. When people say they are depressed about the state of the world, I tell them they should meet some of the people I get to meet. I’ve been having some really exciting conversations with Lyel Resner, co-lead of the Startups & Society Initiative. I think his experience as a tech entrepreneur brings important perspective to the table and I have loved talking to him about the interplay between responsible investment and responsible innovation. 

Shu Dar Yao at Lucid Capitalism also comes to mind. She is a force, highly creative, and has her finger on the pulse of what’s possible for the industry. We had such a great conversation when we were together recently at the Women’s Venture Capital Summit. 

I would be remiss to not mention the inimitable Cheryl Dorsey, CEO of Echoing Green. Cheryl has been many things to me over my years of knowing her — a co-conspirator, super connector, visionary leader, and dear friend. Her work and wisdom have never been more important to the urgent problems we’re collectively facing. I would put Cheryl and the amazing EG fellows in charge of everything if I had a magic wand!

Behrman, NationSwell: What are you reading, watching, or listening to right now that is inspiring your leadership?

Hartman, Tiger Global: A piece of writing that I often find myself returning to and sharing with colleagues in similar spaces is “At the Edge of the Inside” a consideration of the works of theologian Richard Rohr. It emphasizes the importance of effecting change within an organization or system. If you’re on the outside of a system, you can’t fully understand or appreciate it. Conversely, if you’re too close to the center, you may not be able to see its shortcomings. 

That really resonates with me. During the first decade of my career, I often felt out of place. Traditional business people sometimes considered me too alternative, while the activist or nonprofit community sometimes viewed me as disingenuous. Rohr’s piece helped me understand the importance of navigating those edges and building bridges. I highly recommend it to those working within conventional systems but pursuing unconventional goals. 

On a lighter note, it’s essential to find joy, rest, and respite in our busy lives, which I often find when listening — and laughing — to the podcast SmartLess, hosted by Will Arnett, Sean Hayes, and Jason Bateman. It offers a delightful blend of entertainment and relaxation, reminding us to make time for lighthearted fun.

On a related note, I highly recommend the newsletter What Could Go Right, which offers a refreshing perspective amid today’s often negative news cycles. It’s easy to feel anxious or overwhelmed by the state of the world, but it’s essential to recognize the progress we’ve made and the potential for positive change. To address challenges as great as the climate crisis, we can’t rely solely on fear, scarcity, or reactive responses. We have to inspire and excite people by showing them what’s possible and giving them hope. 

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Tiger Global is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment, and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Alison Whritenour, Chief Executive Officer at Seventh Generation, about her journey from traditional marketing to corporate social responsibility, her concerns about this moment in ESG, and how her hope that Seventh Generation’s new approach to CSR reporting will provide the blueprint for its future.

Greg Behrman, CEO + Founder, NationSwell: How did your personal and professional journey to the field of ESG begin?

Alison Whritenour, CEO, Seventh Generation: My career kicked off in traditional consumer packaged goods fashion at Colgate-Palmolive. It’s a wonderful company, and I learned tremendously, but during that time, I realized that many of the things I was interested in weren’t being addressed from a brand and product perspective. At the time, sustainability wasn’t really a hot topic yet, but it was undeniably where all my passions lay. I was thinking about things like non-toxicity, having fewer chemicals, how a product’s ingredients interact with human health. 

Following those interests gave me my way in: I started exploring how I could apply my passion for brand management to companies I personally believed in and used in my own life. On a whim, I applied through a LinkedIn post to Seventh Generation, which I hadn’t heard much about. They were in Vermont — far from home.

Seventh Generation invited me to come up for an interview, so I went. I spent a day at the office I now work in, and I met incredible people who are, at their core, genuinely interested in changing the world and in thinking about doing business differently.

I was applying for a junior level in the organization, so it was a significant decision to take the job considering I’d be moving my whole family to Vermont. But I was inspired by the idea that business could be done differently from what I’d learned in school — from even what I’d seen at a large company. So I thought, “Why not take this chance? I can always go back.”

People often talk about gut instinct, and I tend to rely on it. That’s how I entered this field. It’s funny because people now ask how I got into ESG or CSR. I tell them, “I didn’t!” And that’s the truth. I just loved the company and what it stood for. Along the way, I’ve learned a lot about what those concepts actually mean and the impact they can have, but a lot of it wasn’t formalized when I started in this space more than 10 years ago. It was genuine interest that led me to this work, and it’s really been what’s driving me ever since.

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you define this moment in ESG?

Whritenour, Seventh Generation: This stage concerns me. We’ve seen many companies adopt ambitious goals, and communicate them to the world. But then what happens to those amazing goals? They shift, they get scaled back, or they just don’t materialize. I’m not seeing the accountability that we need to make sure that business is going to be a driving force in solving the environmental challenges of our time. This is the most urgent moment for our environment, and the combination of big goals not materializing and very real challenges facing business leaders and consumers is a collision that’s really getting in the way of impact and action.

I hope that a company like Seventh Generation can continue to be a great proof point that sustainable practices are possible despite various circumstances. We aren’t a huge company, but what we can do is really influence and punch above our weight class. And that’s really where we see the magic is helping move the big guys along who are going to have the most impact.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some initiatives you and your team are driving at Seventh Generation that you think are noteworthy or that show promising signs of advancing the field?

Whritenour, Seventh Generation: There’s often a misconception that sustainability or corporate social responsibility (CSR) occurs in isolated environments. I have the privilege of running a company that was essentially founded on the idea of CSR. We have a genuine mission to transform the world into a healthier, more sustainable, and equitable place, and this guides all of our decisions. We have a rigorous set of product standards and practice radical transparency both internally and externally. 

We are a B Corp, and all of those things were here before I got here, before many of us got here. It’s in the DNA of the company to really serve as an example of what happens when CSR isn’t a standalone concept or an afterthought, but when the business itself is actually born from the idea of doing more than just delivering profit to shareholders, but truly standing for people, planet, and profitability. That’s how we run the company, that’s how my predecessors ran the company, and that’s how I’ve inherited the role. 

It’s a really important part of how this works because when I think about sustainability teams or CSR teams in bigger organizations, I think they’re often just considered around big decisions — you get their inputs, maybe you consider them, maybe you don’t, and then you just do what you were going to do already. 

But at Seventh Generation, our chief impact officer, the leader of our corporate consciousness — which represents advocacy and sustainability — sits on our leadership team. It’s a powerful reminder that you can’t make the easy decision. 

One key approach that sets us apart is the way we think about storytelling: We need everyone to understand the sustainability of our products the same way that they would understand the science of our products or what products claim to do. So for our marketers, your job is to innovate sustainability forward, all while finding a way to continue to hold our product standards as you do that. And that’s true across every function, but it really becomes the ethos for how these really hard decisions are made because there’s no shortcuts here. It’s all of our jobs.

In 2022, we came out with what we’re calling our Fingerprints report, which is truly the next generation of CSR reporting. We did our first CSR reporting in 2004, and we were one of the only companies to really do that at the time, so we’ve been in this for a while, and we’ve inspired a lot of Fortune 500 companies to do the same. But this year, we were really grappling with the question of what does the future of CSR reporting, of work like the work we’re leading, actually look like? 

It led our team down a path of not just looking at your carbon footprint, because this really is about everything we touch. The thesis around Fingerprints is that you really follow the impact of everything you touch, not just what you create. The most tangible examples being the investments you make, the services that you invest in, where you do your banking and where banks are investing your money.

Success for us looks like one other industry partner doing this, because if they do this, it can cement this approach as the reporting of the future.

Behrman, NationSwell: To which leadership practices do you most attribute your success?

Whritenour, Seventh Generation: A few things come to mind. First, I genuinely believe in what I do. I really give a shit, and am committed to leading this company to the next milestone. If we get there, we can be a successful business model that shows the whole world that this is possible. I am purposeful in making sure I show up every day with this ethos in mind.

Second, I take the role of being an empathetic leader very seriously, and there’s power in that. If you understand where you are, then you can understand where your team and where your consumers are, and you can address their needs and concerns as though they’re your own. This human connection is critical to the work we do.

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are some leaders in the field you admire, and who inspires you on a regular basis?

Whritenour, Seventh Generation: It’s funny you should ask me that question because I’ve been asking that question to others since I came into this job. To be honest with you, I don’t know how many people are out there doing roles exactly like mine. I’m someone who deeply values female leadership, and for me, other women doing this work and leading this work are where I find most of my inspiration. That’s been a sweet spot for me: Finding other women in the climate movement who are also willing to stand up and lead a company in that direction. 

Jenna Johnson, President of Patagonia, is one of these women. As a fellow leader in the space, she’s someone out there living the operational complexity of running incredible legacy businesses that stand for so much. She’s a true champion of not only the vision for driving sustainability forward, or in Patagonia’s case, raising the bar, but also what it takes from an operating model, financial delivery, and ensuring employee well-being. I take a lot of notes from her, especially regarding the challenges she’s wrangling these days.

Winona LaDuke joined one of our community conversations, and if you don’t know Winona, she is an Indigenous frontline community member and the executive director of Honor the Earth. She’s a total badass who doesn’t hesitate to tell people what they need to do to protect the sacred land she deeply believes in. I think the radical energy she brings to conversations is amazing, and she and her tribal partners represent a remarkable commitment to being true stewards of the environment and land around them. I’ve continued to watch her.

I always follow what The Sunrise Project is up to. I think the voices of the youth right now are crucial. I’m focused on what the next generation is calling for, and their willingness to take action gives me a lot of inspiration. I tend to follow their work and actions because they’re articulating what’s needed so well right now.

I’ve also been finding inspiration from podcasts — and one I’ve been following is Michael Gervais’s Finding Mastery. As a sports psychologist, he interviews people about how they become experts in their fields from a leadership perspective, physical perspective, and mental standpoint. Although I know nothing about sports, listening to this podcast has been enlightening and has provided me with some out-of-the-box applications for myself.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. 

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment, and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Michael Kobori, Chief Sustainability Officer at Starbucks, about why this is the most crucial moment for ESG that the field has ever faced, the power of leadership companies to change whole industries, and why tapping into your employees is essential.

Greg Behrman, CEO + Founder, NationSwell: How did your personal and professional journey to the field of ESG begin?

Michael Kobori, Chief Sustainability Officer, Starbucks: When I was 17 years old, my father insisted that I apply for a scholarship offered by his company to spend the summer on a foreign exchange program. When you’re 17 years old, you want to spend the summer with your friends, not go to another country. But he made me apply, I got the scholarship, and spent the summer with a host family in Tokyo, Japan. 

Spending that time in my ancestral homeland, and even meeting some of my distant relatives, awakened in me a passion for thinking globally, and set me on a career that would lead to learning more about the world and working to understand and address the challenges facing humankind.  

As someone who has spent most of my life thinking globally, I think a lot about the Black Lives Matter protests of 2020 — it was incredible to see how these protests sparked movements all around the globe. They definitely helped me to reframe my views on social justice.

Another factor that has helped to frame my perspectives on social justice is my ethnicity. I’m a third-generation Japanese-American, and I never used to think about the fact that both of my parents, who were second-generation Americans, spent their youth in the internment camps during World War II. Growing up in the Japanese-American community, we just didn’t talk about it. But the powerful truth is that they were imprisoned by the United States government as enemy aliens.

Today, years later, my two daughters, who are much more conscious about ethnicity and diversity than I was, have awakened my personal history and sense of social justice. They and their generation are alive with discussions about justice and movements for reparations. I’m gratified to see that the Asian-American experience is part of the conversation. And it’s helped me to realize how my family’s history is such a big part of my desire for justice.

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you define this moment in ESG?

Kobori, Starbucks: I’ve been working in this field for nearly 30 years; well before we called it ESG. The work has evolved so much from those days of corporate social responsibility. And as the work evolves, the more we as a society recognize that the challenges of the capitalist system — like inequality and our environmental challenges — are reaching a head.

The current moment has been such an evolution from the early days. It has become so expansive — and as it expands, it keeps bringing more and more stakeholders to the table, including investors and regulators who are helping to change the system.  

Today, there is a clear recognition that the corporate sector is the most powerful and trusted institution in society — even more than nonprofits and governments. With this comes the urgent responsibility to address our global challenges and do our part to help build an equitable, sustainable future.

This is the most crucial moment ever for ESG. While we all try to address our companies’ footprints and the inequalities that may exist in our respective spaces, the real inflection point comes when more and more of us start realizing that we are part of a bigger system: We must ask ourselves what our responsibility is in enlisting others to help change the status quo. 

As practitioners, I think there are tremendous opportunities for us to contribute to society’s well-being and the planet. We need to think beyond our own companies and remind ourselves that the scale at which our business operates is societal and planetary. 

Currently, we are all individually addressing broader societal challenges. People ask if we are collaborating with other organizations and companies focused on the same ecosystem. It’s important to move from individual efforts to collective impact and find ways to capture this progress. When a company thinks on a wider scale, it unlocks opportunities to collaborate for the benefit of society. And collaboration is the only way we can enlist others to help restore ecosystems because, ultimately, success lies in contributing to the restoration of landscapes, which is what matters most to the planet.

Behrman, NationSwell: To which leadership practices do you most attribute your success? How do you approach getting buy-in on the work you’re driving?

Kobori, Starbucks: I’ve been fortunate to work for companies like Starbucks and Levi Strauss & Co., which have been recognized by others as leaders in sustainability. We know that the initiatives we pioneer can influence others in the industry. If Starbucks is successful in eliminating single-use cups and shifting to a reusable cup system, the industry will take notice. At Levi’s, the designers wanted to use less water in the manufacturing process. They came up with techniques to create the worn look on jeans using less water, which led to changes in the industry. Companies that manufactured washing machines began designing machines that used less water. Now, those machines are standard in every apparel factory worldwide.  

Leadership companies have the power to change entire industries. This is why I work for companies like these: We can have a broader influence on the system. 

If you find yourself at an organization that has the potential to lead and you’re facing headwinds because the organization does not have sustainability or responsibility as its ethos, you should focus on the business case for sustainability. It’s there, and it’s been demonstrated over the years — particularly for building resilience in your supply chain. 

It’s also essential to appeal to a company’s talent, especially the younger generation of employees and customers who expect sustainability and social justice from the brands they buy. When you appeal to a large swath of the workforce, that often means success is not dependent upon just one leader or executive. Tapping into your employees builds a movement for internal change that can actually have a societal impact as it starts to impact customers and communities outside of your business.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some initiatives you and your team are driving at Starbucks that you think are noteworthy, or that show promising signs of advancing the field?

Kobori, Starbucks: Corporations are often nervous about environmental and climate justice and unsure of what to do. In addition to researching and engaging with stakeholders to assuage those anxieties, I prefer to take action. For example, we’ve invested $97 million in a community solar project in upstate New York, benefiting low- to middle-income communities. 

Because of that investment, Generate, our partners in the community solar project, received a deal with New York State and identified a subsidy so that those 24,000 households actually ended up paying less for renewable energy than they were for fossil fuel-based energy — and we also provided renewable energy to all of our stores in those neighborhoods. And now that criteria is being applied as we look at all of the other renewable energy investments that our company is making. 

This investment started with Starbucks’ balance sheet cash, and it allowed us to use our profits to address social and environmental issues, which also allows us to continue to generate income from that investment.

Another notable effort is our work on reusable cups, with more than 20 pilots last year in the U.S. and internationally. We aim to phase out single-use cups and move towards more sustainable options, which will not only help us lead with our employees and customers, but across the industry.

Behrman, NationSwell: To which leadership practices do you most attribute your success?

Kobori, Starbucks: I believe in being a servant leader, supporting my team, and helping them obtain the resources they need. I set a clear vision and empower my team to develop strategies for achieving our goals, and then I support them by influencing key stakeholders, connecting the dots, and connecting people who are doing like-minded work. Being a leader means embedding the work of sustainability and social equity in the business and supporting those teams to own it. It means being a great cheerleader and a supporter of their work. 

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some peer leaders and some books that inspire your work?

Kobori, Starbucks: I greatly admire Erin Meezan, CSO at JLL, who was formerly CSO at Interface. I still think Interface does this better than anyone else, because their approach to social impact is totally embedded in what they do as a company. Janine Benyus, founder of Biomimicry Institute, also comes to mind. Janine is one of the most brilliant people I know when it comes to thinking about ecosystems, biology, and sustainability. Every time I speak with her and I think I have the answer to something, she kicks my intellectual butt and makes me realize that I’m only part of the way there.

Finally, there’s Heather McTeer Toney, who leads climate justice work at the Environmental Defense Fund. She is one of the writers profiled in one of the books I’d recommend: All We Can Save, an anthology of poems and essays by female, largely BIPOC, climate justice leaders edited by Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson and Dr. Katharine K. Wilkinson.

Reimagining Capitalism in a World on Fire by Harvard professor Dr. Rebecca Henderson is also an immensely powerful book, as is The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson, who has been called our greatest living science fiction writer. The Ministry for the Future describes a not-too-distant future where a U.N. Ministry has been created to implement the Paris Climate Agreement. And lastly, The Culture Code by Daniel Coyle is so helpful — it will always be my go-to for understanding organizational dynamics and building successful teams. 

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Starbucks is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment, and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice? 

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches. 

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Caitlin Morris, Vice President of Social + Community Impact at Nike, about this moment in ESG, the intertwining of people and planet, and the unique power of measurement not to gauge impact,  but actually facilitate it. 

Greg Behrman, CEO + Founder, NationSwell: How did your personal and professional journey to the field of ESG begin? 

Caitlin Morris, Vice President, Social + Community Impact, Nike: My journey to this field began almost by accident. I graduated from the University of Virginia during a recession, and I didn’t really know what I wanted to do next. I went to Hungary to teach English my first year out of school. 

My second year there, I worked for a consulting firm as the only native English speaker in the office, where I had some high-profile accounts. I specifically recall my secretary saving all her money to buy a pair of Levi’s, highlighting the power of American business as a force for good. But like any situation where you think you’re giving something, you get more than you give. I learned a lot from Hungarians about a diversity of worldviews, and about not taking things for granted.

After returning to the U.S. from Hungary, I worked at a consulting firm focused on capital markets development. I was drawn to the idea that we could make a difference by changing government structures to be more open and democratic through capitalism. My path was set early on, and it would eventually lead me to Nike. 

I joined Nike because of their first Community Impact report — it wasn’t because of Michael Jordan or any great sports moments, but because of the innovation they were driving around corporate responsibility. 

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you define this moment in ESG? 

Morris, Nike: I don’t really think ESG is a framework. It’s more of a collection of letters that roll nicely off the tongue. But the environmental piece of ESG is critically important, and at the same time, it often gets elevated over social without people recognizing the strong intersectionality between the two. 

I don’t disagree that we need sharp measurement on environmental factors, but people and the planet are two intertwined issues. If you don’t solve poverty and other challenges that communities are facing in their daily lives, we’re going to continue to make decisions that aren’t good for the planet. My team sits in social and community impact, so we lead with the people piece. That doesn’t mean we don’t see the intersectionality with the environment. It’s part of why we launched the Community Climate Resilience Fund, where we’re directly investing in intersectionality with the Trust for Public Land. 

My team has never been in more demand from the brand. Community used to be a “nice to have”; now it’s “table stakes” for companies. As you look at the Edelman Trust Barometer, consumers expect companies to solve problems more than they expect governments to. So, we have to have a clear point of view on which issues we take a stand on and how we’re addressing them. I feel proud that we have a team that can stick with long-term change around physical activity and supporting leaders who are working to address social justice issues. 

This moment in ESG brings so much excitement, but that excitement also brings challenges. Everyone grew up in a community, so the passion for thinking about the community component of social factors can feel quite outsized. That passion comes from an authentic and honest place, but it can be noisy, and the noise makes it difficult to maintain focus on the strategy, all while giving it enough space to

constantly evolve and emerge. The challenge is to balance the desire to keep people focused and to be flexible and responsive to current issues. 

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some initiatives you and your team are driving at Nike that you think are noteworthy, or that show promising signs of advancing the field? 

Morris, Nike: Nike has a mission, vision, and purpose — and the purpose part is relatively new for the company. This guiding principle has made our work central to the company’s operations, which is exciting. 

One of our most important initiatives began with a big framework: believing the world needed to understand the global cost of inactivity. We created Designed to Move, an advocacy play that we hoped would catalyze a movement around physical activity. For Designed to Move, the theory of change is supported by science. We collaborated with scientists to understand the various benefits that come from sports, and we learned that it’s a uniquely efficient investment — it pretty singularly combines physical literacy, emotional intelligence, and cognitive function. As the nexus of all of those things, it has been undervalued. 

So, for Designed to Move, our theory of change had two key focuses: one is integrating physical activity back into everyday life, the second is providing kids with early positive experiences in sports and play. 

At an individual level, it’s crucial to give children the ability, confidence, and desire to be active, as this sets them up for a lifetime of activity. The cycle is intergenerational — inactive adults are two times more likely to have inactive children. When we provide kids with positive early experiences in sports and play, they continue engaging in these activities. We began with a high-level macro approach, and then shifted to more programmatic work, testing innovations on the ground to gather proof points and inspirational stories. 

Another initiative I’d like to spotlight is the Nike Community Ambassador Program. This initiative excites me because it demonstrates the power of measurement and using the company’s full resources. The program involves training retail athletes to be coaches in local community organizations. What I love about this is that it was driven by insight. For instance, in Seattle, a group of Nike retailers were volunteering

at a school when the PE teacher left them in charge of 50 kids, assuming they could handle a PE class since they were associated with Nike. 

This experience highlighted the need for our teams to be better equipped as coaches in the field. The program began as a way to rally teams around the cause of getting kids active and walking our talk. We believe that quality trained coaches are critical to a child’s experience, so we can’t have untrained employees volunteering. What we didn’t expect was the incredible impact this program had on the employees and their connection to the brand. Some Nike employees may have grown up in the local Boys and Girls Club and now are returning to volunteer at a place that was meaningful to them. Others might have a master’s degree in sports science and are working retail because it was the available job. 

These employees didn’t necessarily see a future for themselves in retail, but now they’re able to use their knowledge and apply it in the community. This has unlocked a different reaction regarding their longevity with the brand. The program allows us to test our coaching materials, authentically engage with communities on a larger scale, and drive an employee engagement strategy that delivers returns to the brand. 

Behrman, NationSwell: How are you measuring and evaluating the success of your initiatives? 

Morris, Nike: Nike’s power lies in innovation and inspiration, and when we are at our best, we utilize the full power of the brand along with my team’s work on the ground. About seven years ago, we transitioned from a separate mission-based team to the company’s philanthropy center. As the company’s budget grew, so did ours, allowing us to do some exciting things. 

We’ve invested in digital tools for scaling our reach, providing resources such as coaching guides and inclusive coaching tools. We adopted a collective impact approach, focusing on local partnerships and place-based investment. This enables us to align our efforts on a city or neighborhood level and measure the impact of our work. I do think that this power of partnership at a local level is absolutely profound: You can’t get scale without first making a hyperlocal impact and measuring it properly.

Speaking of measurement, our increased budget gives us more tools to better measure our efficacy, ensuring our work is genuinely effective. With a smaller budget, you want to spend all your money doing good work. As your budget grows, you can be more honest about assessing your performance and asking, “Well, we’re doing it, but is it really working?” 

Effectively measuring our progress is new territory for us. We’ve been good at selling inspirational concepts and catalyzing movements, and now we’re prioritizing holding ourselves accountable by leveraging both internal and external tools to measure our reach. 

We’re also getting granular with measurement, even measuring the effectiveness of our tools. We’ve historically built things in partnership with experts and gained insights from users, and now we have experts examining how well our tools are being used. 

Behrman, NationSwell: To which leadership practices do you most attribute your success? 

Morris, Nike: Stakeholder engagement has been the connecting thread of my career. I make a dedicated effort to actively listen. Great leaders are excellent communicators, and communication starts with listening. That, for me, is probably my connecting thread and belief. People often ask why I stay at Nike. I stay because of our commitment to innovation and the people. I am fortunate to lead and partner with a team of 70 incredibly intelligent individuals, and my job as a leader is to be a multiplier for them, helping them do their best work. 

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are some leaders who inspire your work? 

Morris, Nike: My first choice is Shelly Omilade Bell, founder of Black Girl Ventures. Shelly is entrepreneurial, creative, and authentic in everything she does. She radiates energy and possesses the wisdom to lead her organization forward while recognizing that her role may need to change over time. It is not easy for founders to do this, and she is doing it brilliantly. 

Charlie Brown, CEO of Context Partners, also comes to mind. I’ve known Charlie for a long time and admire his work, starting at Ashoka, where the power lies in believing in individual game-changers. Charlie’s philosophy centers on the idea that no one achieves success on their own — we always do it in a community. I have learned a lot from Charlie, who has not been afraid to reinvent himself. As someone who has been consistent in my career, I am always impressed by people who take risks and change things up. 

Last but not least, there’s Maria Bobenrieth, CEO of Women Win. What I love about Maria is her constant joy. She has a saying, “Don’t get angry, get curious.” She leads with joy and innovation, changing how we support women and girls through sport. We have collaborated on our first participatory grant-making initiative outside of our employees: the ONSIDE Fund, funded by us and Puma. While there has been good collaboration on the labor rights side, there has been less collaboration on community impact. The Onside Fund and the participatory grant-making initiative, as well as the ability to co-fund with others in the industry, are fascinating. 

Alongside those leaders, I’ve also become a big podcast fan. I keep going back to “No Off Season,” a Nike podcast that features Megan Bartlett from the Center for Healing and Justice through Sport. I highly recommend it. 

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Nike is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Kate Behncken, Corporate Vice President of Microsoft Philanthropies, about the importance of tying together purpose and profit, the power of capacity-building leadership, and this moment of tremendous opportunity for social impact and sustainability leaders.

Greg Behrman, NationSwell CEO + Founder: Tell us about how your personal and professional journey led you to ESG work.

Kate Behncken, Microsoft Philanthropies Corporate Vice President: While I was a lawyer for many years working in Australia and Europe, I was presented with the opportunity to come on board as Chief of Staff for Brad Smith, Microsoft President, Vice Chairman, and General Counsel. That post gave me an opportunity to be exposed to the broader work of the company, and it was in that role that I learned about all of Microsoft’s social impact work. 

I had the opportunity to work on a number of initiatives like Kids in Need of Defense, and I think that exposure is what really lit the fire for me to get passionate about the work we were leading, the opportunity to make a difference, and most importantly, about the responsibility the private sector has to all communities.

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you think about what defines this moment in ESG?

Behncken, Microsoft: As a tech company, we see the tremendous opportunity that technology brings — the huge benefits and great potential for technology to address some of society’s biggest challenges — but we also see the pace of change, the rapid transformation that was only accelerated in the Covid era, and how this pace raises new challenges and also intensifies existing inequities in our communities.

Because of that, at this moment, there’s greater expectation on private sector leaders from everybody — employees, stakeholders, and ourselves. I would say from what I’ve seen at Microsoft, the level of energy across the company for the work we do is at an all-time high. That’s a fantastic opportunity for someone like me in my role, so the question is, how do you tap into it in the best possible way?

We view our goals through four key lenses: supporting economic growth, sustainability, trust and protecting fundamental rights, but ESG is also so broad. I think a lot of us are thinking about what this framework means, and what it’s going to do. There’s going to be more that companies will have to report on in more ways; and there are going to be more things that we want to continue to report on.

Behrman, NationSwell: What is it about your approach to ESG, social impact, and sustainability work that yields the most success?

Behncken, Microsoft: In the private sector, there’s been a historical sense that profit happens at the core of an organization, but the purpose-driven functions take place in this small department that’s separate from it. But I don’t think that’s the case. The more that companies can bring together profit and purpose, the more they’re going to be successful.  

That’s certainly not the case at Microsoft. From a people perspective, we have a multidisciplinary team thinking about how we bring together our purpose and our profit. That’s no easy task. To do that, you really need a diverse skill set. We have people from so many different backgrounds, and as with any team, that diversity makes you stronger, and makes the work better.  

One of the really unique things about Microsoft Philanthropies is a group called Tech for Social Impact, where we focus on how we help nonprofits get access to affordable technology to be able to leverage that tech to grow, scale, and reach more of the beneficiaries that they’re trying to reach. But it’s not just the affordable technology we provide — it’s often that we’re working really closely with them to help them drive their own digital transformation. We’re meeting them where they are. Some nonprofits have great mastery of their technology tools, others not as much. So we, and our partners, listen to the organizations’ specific needs, that’s what makes our model so different from a one-size-fits-all approach to helping nonprofits.

In this arrangement, we reinvest incremental profits generated from the TSI model into philanthropy, into innovation for the nonprofit sector, and into a wide range of social good initiatives. That gives us a tremendous opportunity to do more; the better TSI does, the more that we can reinvest back into the sector.

A lot of people originally thought that a non-profit sales channel in philanthropies is oil and water; they thought, “How can that possibly work?” Well, I see it work. And it’s fantastic. Last year alone, we provided $3.2 billion in donated and discounted technology – up 29% from the previous year – to 302,000 nonprofits that deliver critical services to over 1.2 billion people around the world. Over the next five years, we will double the number of nonprofits we reach with technology discounts and grants to help amplify their impact.

We’re also focused heavily on multi-sector partnerships, like our partnership with U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris’s office to deepen investments in local economies in Central America, bolstering quality of life, increasing access to work, and helping to stem the tide of migration to the United States. For this initiative, the partners worked together to map out the different “swim lanes,” and then we each focused on the one where we could have the most unique impact. 

We lead the swim lane around digital inclusion: Microsoft is focused on expanding Broadband internet access to 3 million Central American  people and providing access to digital skills learning paths to upskill workers and make them more competitive in the job market. We’re training over 100,000 Central American workers in the next three years, helping them to learn the soft, technical, and digital skills that will enable them to gain access to  higher-paying local jobs.

The partners were very thoughtful, not only about which of us could lean in to each of the swim lanes, but about how each lane supported all the others,  and then how all involved collaborated more closely with government. I think it’s a model that we might start seeing in other countries around the world. You can learn more about our work, and the other partners involved on the White House website.

Behrman, NationSwell To which of your leadership practices or approaches do you attribute your success leading the sustainability function of an organization like Microsoft?

Behncken, Microsoft: One of my core beliefs about being a leader is that leadership is about building capacity and not dependency. Of course, I’m very focused on making sure Microsoft Philanthropies is a great place to work, but I’m also really invested in how we’re helping to grow people’s careers in the space. 

I’m also a firm believer in the power of partnerships. We partner a lot with governments around the world. It’s the only way to really achieve scale with some of the work we do, like our global initiative to upskill workers in an effort to support local economies and talent pipelines around the world.

Lastly, I am a firm believer in focus, and I steer my team towards only being at the tables where we can add really unique value. If you do less, you’ll drive greater impact. That’s a journey we’re all still on.

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are some leaders in this space whose leadership inspires your own?

Behncken, Microsoft: I’m inspired by Wendy Young of Kids in Need of Defense, a great organization working to help unaccompanied minors migrating to the US. Wendy is an amazingly generous leader, and Microsoft has worked closely with KIND over many years. I’ve had the opportunity to see how she thinks about addressing systemic issues, and she’s just very on top of it. An absolutely wonderful person.

My team and I look at the work that Shamina Singh is leading at Mastercard, not just on inclusive growth but also more broadly across the whole organization, thinking about how they bring together their purpose and their profit. (Editor’s Note: Shamina Singh is a future ESG Next honoree, and will be profiled in this series at a later date.)

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some resources you recommend that have helped to fuel your leadership, professionally and personally?

Behncken, Microsoft: Caste, an exploration of how America has been — and still is — shaped by a not-so-hidden caste system, is essential reading. The author, Isabel Wilkerson, links our social system to India’s and Nazi Germany’s, and her analysis has shaped my view of the world today.

Brad Smith, who’s the president of Microsoft, recently wrote a book called Tools and Weapons, and also recently released a podcast where he speaks to leaders in business and government to look at the world’s most critical challenges, the intersection of technology and society, rural broadband, and digital inclusion. I think they’re both essential.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Microsoft Philanthropies is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals?

Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Tricia Winton, Partner and Global Head of ESG at Bain Capital, about why she thinks ESG isn’t going away anytime soon, the power of a private partnership model in advancing ESG work, and the importance of focusing on the upside while you navigate the risks and pitfalls.

Greg Behrman, Founder + CEO, NationSwell: Was there a defining experience or moment that drew you to this field?

Tricia Winton, Partner and Global Head of ESG, Bain Capital: It wasn’t just one moment. I’ve had the opportunity to be surrounded by leaders in our field and a firm like Bain Capital that believed that thriving businesses across a number of dimensions including governance, sustainability, organizational performance and culture generate higher returns as well as positive societal and environmental outcomes. I’m proud to say that Bain Capital has held this belief since its inception and before the term ESG came to fruition.  

I joined Bain Capital in the midst of the pandemic and saw firsthand the power of an organization that is sincere and engages and collaborates with a wide range of important stakeholders. I also saw our ambition to lead in this space. The goal was not to make flashy proclamations, but to drive genuine impact. You can feel that in the culture and in the work, which is very different from what I’ve seen anywhere else.

Behrman, NationSwell: What do you make of this moment in ESG? Where are we in its evolution, and how do you assess this moment?

Winton, Bain Capital: I have a long-term perspective on the evolution of the space, and I think broader socio-economic factors have only heightened the awareness of what’s expected of companies and individuals in facing some of society’s largest problems. The reality is we’re going to need more collective effort, not less.

Here’s the good news: We’re seeing progress every day. We’re seeing more and more employees who want to work at firms and companies that think long-term and holistically about their impact.  We know employees want it and we know investors want it. Ultimately, it’s a focus that is going to reward our industry and the broader business community. 

The more I see this progress, the more my conviction grows around the importance of this work. Of course, we need to address the risks our companies are facing — but it’s equally important to concertedly lean into the upside of ESG work and the lasting, positive impact that businesses can deliver. We can and must do so much more.

Behrman, NationSwell: Can you share how you and your team at Bain Capital approach ESG work in ways that are unique or exemplary?

Winton, Bain Capital:  Our full team really wanted to develop an ESG approach that has our fingerprint on it — distinctive, generative and ultimately our own. 

We’ve had four decades built on a consulting business transformation model that’s really unique in this space — and that really gives us a head start on producing authentic, exemplary work. Our goal is to invest and grow great companies, but also to do that in the right way with a very high integrity, respect for people and enthusiasm to create these businesses that thrive. Because of our consulting roots, we have the desire to work through tough problems. We’re trying to apply that same rigor and intensity to our ESG efforts, endeavoring to build out what we think is a distinctive approach to where our culture is in alignment with our values. 

That manifests throughout the five core ESG commitments we established, where we believe we can have meaningful, measurable impact over the long-term. It also manifests in the practical application of those commitments in our investments and portfolio companies, through examples like building our ESG leadership team with leaders from across our business units, organizing global teams to spot ESG trends and share learnings, and focusing on building good governance in our investments and portfolio companies because we believe that good governance is the umbrella through which ESG efforts get the right traction. We have an intentional approach there with a consistent set of practices that centers around ensuring that we are thinking about ESG outcomes with the same intensity that we have every other part of our investment thesis. 

Other examples include the convening of portfolio company leaders like our Chief Human Resources and Talent Officer monthly forums and annual summit to advance our approaches to human capital management.  In these forums, leaders review the latest strategies and tools to enhance diversity, equity and inclusion and share approaches to boost employee engagement and organizational health.

Finally, we prioritize broader stakeholder engagement with thought partners like NationSwell, Focusing Capital on Long Term (FCLT Global), Business for Social Responsibility and the Sustainable Markets Initiative to advance our sustainable investment practices, and Management Leaders for Tomorrow and the Directors Academy to really expand the pipeline of diverse talent coming to our firm and to our portfolio companies.

Those are the kinds of things we’re building out across our businesses. Soup to nuts, we think this is distinctive and differentiating.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some key opportunities you see for Bain Capital? 

Winton, Bain Capital:  There’s so much that’s been said about how we need alignment, uniform actions, and clarity as an industry. All of that would be great. But for us, here and now, we’re really focused on how we can measure and drive year-on-year improvements. We continue to build out our measurement and reporting capabilities, centering the tangible outputs that help drive our progress. And when you hear people talk about the confusion and the challenges around data measurement, the momentum of what’s possible and those tangible outcomes get lost from the discussion.

We believe that a focus on tangible outcomes helps us act on priority topics, such as our efforts to reduce our environmental footprint and engage our portfolio companies to reduce carbon. We leverage our deeply collaborative approach, and support from expert advisors to ensure decarbonization efforts are practical and relevant for our companies.  

Behrman, NationSwell: To which of your leadership practices do you attribute your success?

Winton, Bain Capital: I embrace a deeply collaborative process and I’m fortunate that our firm and our ESG team really pride itself on that.  We work to understand different points of view. We believe firmly that more perspectives on a problem will yield a better outcome. I think we are trying to be bold and we have an ambitious vision, but we have this highly collaborative approach that I feel will help us build more effective programs and drive impact over time.

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are the leaders that inspire you in personal and professional ways?

Winton, Bain Capital:  I think one of the most inspiring people to me is Paul Farmer. I had the opportunity to meet Paul on many occasions and learn more about his fundamental belief about global health equity and how important it is to advocate for human health and justice globally. With his passing, the world really lost an incredible visionary.Bryan Stevenson’s work on racial justice in America has been a constant source of inspiration for me, and he is an incredible example of how you build lasting partnerships.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Bain Capital is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Jenny Flores, Head of Small Business Growth Philanthropy at Wells Fargo, about how her experience as an immigrant in America informed her journey to human-centered banking, the unique impact of flexible capital, the importance of fearless philanthropy, and the not-so-secret powers of her approach to collaboration.

Greg Behrman, CEO + Founder, NationSwell: How did your personal and professional journey to the field of ESG begin?

Jenny Flores, Head of Small Business Growth Philanthropy, Wells Fargo: I’m an immigrant to this country; we moved to San Francisco from El Salvador when I was almost three years old. Coming to America was the promise of a better life. We were leaving a country that was war-torn and my parents knew that in America, dreams come true.

But my journey has been defined by questioning what that actually means in practice. There’s this sentiment that in America, you can do anything. But then there’s what it actually takes — that grit — to navigate an unfamiliar system and actually make something big happen.

For me, that means navigating the systems of this beautiful country alongside the people whom I ultimately want to help and serve. I went into banking wanting to learn to underwrite affordable housing because I knew housing was such an important goal for my community; having a home that is affordable and accessible is the number one priority for so many.

That’s what fuels my drive, and that’s what brought me to the industry. And in my time working within it, I’ve learned just how powerful the banking industry really is. It allows you to buy a home or go to college or start a business, so it’s at the core of enabling the American dream.  I made a very deliberate choice to stay in this industry and help influence it to better serve people like me, who have to work that much harder to become executives.

That’s the question at the core of my mission: How do I get banking to see the world through the eyes of people like me — people who may not have that natural runway?

Behrman, NationSwell: How do you make sense of this moment in ESG?

Flores, Wells Fargo: The momentum in ESG right now is going to make it extremely difficult to go backwards. The leaders of the future will need to balance profit and purpose in ways that in the past hadn’t been needed. This is no longer just about compliance — it’s about how leaders can show they’re ready to navigate the opportunities that are still nascent or evolving in a complex society.

We had a recent conversation at a town hall with our employees. We asked ourselves the question, “Are we willing to continue to double down on ESG in the face of opposition from some segments of the population?”

From my personal perspective and taking into account all of the data and the science, we need to take these factors seriously. Yes, we have our traditional oil and gas industries; and yes, they are filling a need. But we also need to transition to a way of doing things that will help a sustainable future to exist. We’re in the position to finance that, and to figure out how to scale that. And that is not something I personally think we should back down from. The banking industry is in a position to help figure out the solutions for our economy today but also for our future needs, and we’re going to do it. Our survival depends on it.

But put aside the politics and just think about it from the reality of the moment, and from the business opportunity. Any company would be foolish not to understand there is a real commercial opportunity present. ESG professionals have the ability to really influence how our understanding of this moment evolves in authentic ways that map into the business priorities that we foresee for our prospective industries: How we bring our employee expertise, how we elevate it, how we connect the dots between our business impact and our impact in the world around the issues we choose to stand by.

Behrman, NationSwell: Can you talk about some of the unique programs or initiatives that you think other ESG practitioners should know about?

Flores. Wells Fargo: Before I embark on a new initiative at any of the companies where I’ve had the privilege of working, I find that there’s this moment when I can center solutions on building equity in the system, and help executives with decision-making power to see a new or different path forward.

Speaking truth to that power is very important. About 60 days after I started at Wells Fargo, Covid came to America. I had to make a choice about how I wanted to frame the work, and I wanted to make sure that we had a shared understanding, without mincing words — not leaving anything up to assumption.

And what I said was, “The financial system as it currently exists does not serve people of color or people from diverse backgrounds well. Period.” I laid out all the reasons I’d seen in my 20-year career in banking that have made that happen, and I told my organization that though I haven’t been at Wells Fargo for very long, I would imagine that some of these reasons play out here, too. And if that’s the case, I reasoned that our response had to be very different than what we would traditionally do — because the urgent need here will grow exponentially, and it’ll grow very quickly.

Within 30 days, businesses were shutting down. The majority of those 41% were Black businesses, 36% Latino Hispanic businesses. It was very clear who was most negatively impacted.

Because of the conversations we started around driving impact for the most vulnerable and under-served , our CEO made a courageous decision: That we were going to give away all of our processing fees from participating in the first round of the Paycheck Protection Program, not even knowing what the final sum total would be.

And that’s how the Open For Business Fund started — with intention built in, and with the understanding that we should build in flexibility where, in the past, we would avoid taking quick, bold action because it was perceived as too risky. Now, we could move forward with our assumptions based in the realities of the communities we served. That’s how we designed it, and it’s been a pride point for the company ever since.

Through our roughly $420 million Open for Business Fund, we’ve reached over 178,000 businesses. 73% of those business owners are low-to-moderate income, 79% are racially or ethnically diverse, over 53% are women business owners. And you could just see the impact happening in those populations that we really sought to reach.

Behrman, NationSwell: What was the impact of those investments?

Flores. Wells Fargo: Of that money, the first $250 million was deployed as very flexible capital, which took a lot of different forms: In one example we made a grant so that the nonprofits we supported could make grants directly to small businesses; In another instance, the investment could have helped a community lender bring down the interest rate for a small business owner’s existing loan; it took a myriad of forms. Impact will be tracked through early 2025, but as of September 2022 organizations funded through the program have raised $1.7 billion dollars in grants and debt to support communities across the country — so essentially we’ve generated six times the initial investment — just based on being flexible and responsive.

The Wells Fargo dollars were catalytic because we were really fast to get into the community. The money went out as grants to nonprofits, as equity on the balance sheets of nonprofits so they could lever that money up. We focused on strengthening the balance sheet of our non-profit grantees so they were able to then absorb additional capital that they raised so that they wouldn’t be in a risky situation themselves. We also utilized loan loss reserves so that if any of those loans went sideways, they could have that on their balance sheet to protect them.

The design was really purposeful and intentional. It helped create and amplify impact. We did a lot of little things that were meaningful to support the strategies and successes of small businesses across the country.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some other examples of unique initiatives you’re helping to lead at Wells Fargo that are yielding tangible impact?

Flores, Wells Fargo: We’re also lifting up some incredible ideas that I think have the potential to change how small businesses raise money. For example, we are funding the Small Business Exchange, or SMBX, which is a FINRA-registered funding portal and public marketplace for issuing and buying U.S. small business bonds.  The SMBX team has figured out how to help small businesses be able to issue bonds so they can raise capital. And in Washington D.C., we are testing this with the mayor, providing technical assistance to small businesses who can then go on to raise $400,000 or $500,000 as part of a bond offer.

Very often, this support will go to the ideas and leaders that have so many naysayers who challenge them and say, “How are you going to do that? It’s never going to happen.” Those are the people I love to get behind. The future holds so much promise for resilient leaders like them, but we have to think differently about how we assess risk and finance innovation.

The SMBX is just a completely different way of financing businesses, and it has the power to really engage the community. So if I want to invest, get a financial return and drive social impact, I know where to go. The due diligence is completed, and I can invest in businesses in my neighborhood that are going to create jobs and build the economic base of my city.

Behrman, NationSwell: What is it about your approach to this work that has helped you to be an effective leader?

Flores, Wells Fargo: Once something gets approved, I love going full speed on it, and I love helping others reach that velocity — even if it means sitting back and letting them take the wheel. It brings me a lot of joy to see the people around me actively in pursuit of impact, and I like to empower them to take a piece of the initiative and really lead it internally, creating visibility around it. I’m not driven by getting the credit — and not being credit-driven helps bring people to the table with me because they feel like they can collaborate more authentically and freely, and it also empowers them to step up, become advocates and changemakers, and make things happen.

Getting the credit or getting acknowledged isn’t nearly as important as getting someone else in an organization to care about the problem that you’re working on, and getting them moving to work on it in their own way. That’s how change happens in organizations. It’s not one person. It is kind of a movement that happens and then you have people everywhere marching towards a bigger goal. It makes companies better. It makes the culture come to life in a different way. I can’t begin to tell you how happy that makes me.

Basically, my secret power is that I’m a huge collaborator, and I try to do so courageously. I’ll be the first to step up and try to sell something internally, and I might get kicked in the face, but it’s okay.

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are some leaders that inspire your leadership?

Flores, Wells Fargo: My dear friend Lorena Hernandez who previously headed up community impact for Comcast in California. She’s an incredible leader, and a true champion at understanding how to ingrain ESG into the core of your business. I admire the fact that she’s always collaborating with community, and doesn’t just design from her corporate office – she’s always really out there, learning and giving back.

Another person whose wisdom I often seek is Tracy Gray, who is the Founder and Managing Partner at a venture firm called The 22Fund.  Tracy is recognized widely as a multifaceted leader in social and economic equity in finance.  She is brilliant (she is also a rocket scientist) and I have her on speed dial because she is able to break down business models like no one else. I love that Tracy can see the world for what it is and also for the potential we all have to do and be better.  . She’s always thinking about what the present needs of communities are to date, and thinking ahead to how those needs will evolve in the future. I just love talking to her because I feel like she grounds me in the short term, and then inspires me for long-term thinking.

Last but not least is Jacqueline Martinez Garcel over at the Latino Community Foundation. She’s incredible. She’s such a heart-centered leader. Anytime I have the opportunity to be near her, I feel like I leave just spiritually in a different place because she is so grounded in the work, and in how people are feeling.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are some resources that inspire your leadership?

Flores, Wells Fargo: I get inspired by people who are on their A Game, it doesn’t matter what industry they’re in. But I would say I am a big Beyoncé fan. She is heart, mind, soul, everything’s aligned to give you this experience where you feel like, when she’s performing in front of you, she’s singing just to you. Everyone leaves her concerts feeling that way. I’m inspired by how ferocious she is. I want to be that ferocious at impact. I want to be the Beyoncé of social impact.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub. Wells Fargo is a NationSwell Institutional Member. To learn more about membership in NationSwell’s community of leading social impact and sustainability practitioners, visit our site.

At a moment of unprecedented attention, investment and opportunity for the emerging field of ESG, leaders are asking: Who is best preparing their organization for the society of the future? Who is innovating today to meet decades-long environmental and social goals? Who is setting standards that catalyze their industry’s change for the better? Who is defining what bold and aspirational look like — and how best to advance that work in practice?

Enter NationSwell’s ESG Next, an exemplary group of investors, executives, authors, philanthropists, social sector leaders, academics, and field builders who are helping to shape business as a force for social and environmental progress, advancing — and even pioneering — the most forward-thinking and effective programs, initiatives, technologies, methodologies, practices, and approaches.

For this installment, NationSwell interviewed Lata Reddy, Senior Vice President, Prudential Financial Chair, The Prudential Foundation, about the importance of place-based impact, the power of anchor institutions, the next frontier for ESG measurement, and the importance of tried-and-true approaches alongside newer, more disruptive technologies.

Greg Behrman, NationSwell CEO + Founder: Tell us about how your personal and professional journey led you to ESG work.

Lata Reddy, Senior Vice President, Prudential Financial Chair, The Prudential Foundation: While I was finishing my first year of law school, I had the life-changing opportunity to work and intern with Bryan Stevenson, who is now Executive Director of the Equal Justice Initiative. I was in Atlanta at the time, and Bryan was a young lawyer right out of law school. I spent the next couple of years working with the organization he was working with, which represented people on death row and people who had been incarcerated. 

During the experience, I had the opportunity to speak with those on death row and learned how their experiences were so indicative of structural racism. It raised my consciousness and helped me understand, even as a law student, how the legal realm played a role in perpetuating these inequities, and that one day I could use my experience to address these historic and systemic injustices.

Behrman, NationSwell: How is the work you’ve been leading unique in the social impact and the sustainability field? What distinguishes you from others working in ESG?

Reddy, Prudential: Prudential started this work early, we take more risks with our capital than others do, and we stay in the work longer.

Our organization has been ahead of the curve in that we’ve thought about the work we do from an impact lens for over 50 years. Our ethos was formed in Newark, New Jersey. It’s where we were founded almost 150 years ago, and it’s where we’ve stayed, where our headquarters are to this day. 

We’ve learned so much while operating in a community that has ridden so many waves of this country’s history — and that includes the good, the bad, and the ugly. We’ve had the opportunity to engage in the community of Newark, which is our front yard, backyard, all around. 

Early on, the company bundled our resources together. It started with philanthropy, other cash giving and corporate contributions, employee volunteerism, and impact investing — long before anyone was calling it impact investing. We were spending the capital anyway, so we wanted to make sure we did it in a way that maximized impact. It morphed over the years, and we grew exponentially: about two years back, we had reached a billion dollars in impact assets under management on the impact investing side. And that, by the way, was all Prudential balance sheet money, so our own capital that we had invested in that way. We had doubled the size of our philanthropy, which for us is $35 million annually, and our total cash giving is more than that.

We do it in a place-based way in Newark, and we continue to be deeply engaged in a broader set of issues because we know that these systems are interacting with each other; through Prudential’s deep history and commitment to Newark residents, we’ve helped redefine the place of an anchor institution in its community. That effort has been transformative. We now have a larger set of institutions working together in a very concerted way, and so I think there’s a lot of stickiness to that and people are really taking to that, which is exciting to see.

It is a function of being the kind of corporation we are. We’re in the business of managing risk and pooling risk, and thinking about it over the long term. I think we all need to be taking more risks, and I would argue that it’s imperative for us as businesses to engage a broader set of stakeholders, and the only way we’re going to do that is through nontraditional stakeholders, and that inherently will involve a little bit of risk. It’s informed risk, or it can be, and you can mitigate the risk. So there’s the business imperative which is clearly a moral imperative for us to do more with our capital.

Behrman, NationSwell: What initiatives are you leading that exemplify your approach?

Reddy, Prudential: Somebody once said to me, and I love this phrase, people live their lives horizontally, not vertically. Systems interact, and you have to think holistically about a place.

Years ago, Prudential wanted to redefine what it means to be an anchor institution in Newark. So we did that by casting a wider net: We brought in cultural organizations, other corporations, universities; really, all facets of the community writ large. It was a core group of about six, and it’s grown since then. We commissioned some research to look at opportunities for us as anchors, to do some fact-finding around small businesses, like what would a procurement initiative look like, and the realization that if we just allocate an additional percentage of our spend to Newark businesses, we can exponentially impact the local economy.  

And then it grew to a hiring initiative around hiring local Newark residents, and then living initiatives — meaning, how do we get more of our employees to live in the city and have that take hold? That approach is what we’re still managing today. It started about five years ago or so, and we’ve had some great success working with Mayor Ras Baraka; we’ve actually helped him achieve some of his goals around making sure that 2,020 Newark residents had jobs at anchor institutions by 2020, which we did — and we well surpassed that number. 

That success also impacted Gov. Phil Murphy and his work with the CEO collective that our CEO is part of, especially as we looked at post-Covid recovery strategies for the state of New Jersey. So some of what we did in Newark is now a part of the state’s strategy, so we were able to grow it there.

Berhman, NationSwell: What’s your take on ESG as a framework, what’s your read on this moment? How do you make sense of the field, where are we, and where we’re going?

Reddy, Prudential: This all began with negative screening. Many of us remember the time when the prevailing sentiment was, “First, do no harm.” We avoided investing in programs, initiatives, or really anything that had the potential to cause harm. 

Now, it’s moved more into a conversation where we’re mitigating risk against Environmental, Social, and Governance factors. That’s an important shift, but I’ve still yet to hear very many conversations about impact — especially around proactively and affirmatively trying to create impact in whatever we do. 

I’m hoping the shifts that brought us to this current moment will accelerate us towards that. We’ve certainly talked about it in the impact investing space, where there’s an intention to create impact alongside financial returns, so I’m hoping that other players in the social impact and sustainability field will think about it as well.

Behrman, NationSwell: What are your aspirations for the field? Where do you think it’s going, and what will drive its progress, its evolution?

Reddy, Prudential: For me, the next frontier is tying it to business value, like how do we measure the impact we’re creating in a way that’s also demonstrating business value? I believe deeply you can create business value by going after societal impact, but it’s on us to prove that out. And the more we can prove it, the more baked in to our business strategy it will be. Our field will evolve when businesses make it core to what they do, rather than something they keep on the sidelines.

Behrman: How has your leadership evolved?

Reddy, Prudential: One lesson I’ve learned, which I think every leader learns, is that you can never overcommunicate. Try to communicate the same message in different ways because it will resonate with different people at different times in different ways. It’s an obvious but important one. The other thing is, leaders look around corners — that’s our job, and we get paid for it. But doubling back to bring people along is usually necessary in helping people to move forward. Helping people to see it on their own so that they have the buy-in and taking the necessary time to do that is really important as well.

I’ve found that having a “true north” for what you’re trying to get to is what has helped cut through the noise, this audience today, the messaging, so that at the core, it’s the same, and it’s based on what you believe and what you’re trying to execute against. And then on the margins you can modulate to the particular audience.

My true north is about leveling the playing field. That’s what I think about when I think about my personal purpose.

Behrman, NationSwell: What is one thing you think folks are really missing? Anything you would move people a couple degrees over on?

Reddy, Prudential: I think in some ways people are often looking for the next shiny object, the next innovation, the next disruption. That’s very intellectually exciting, but when you talk about a specific place, it’s quite often the tried and true. It’s building authentic relationships. It’s engaging the very people who know best about what’s needed, it’s about an asset framing — so not talking about the problems, but framing it all through what a community has, and the opportunities to make that even better.

Behrman, NationSwell: Who are some leaders you really admire in the space?

Reddy, Prudential: Paul Polman, author of “Net Positive” and former CEO of Unilever. I think he’s done so much for this notion of purpose, and really having purpose as a core part of your business as your brand. Under Ajay Banga’s leadership, Mastercard did some really great work, and they were very clear about the purpose, clear about the fact that change needs to be brought about through business. When you have the vision and the clarity, everything else just falls into place.

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To learn more about how our ESG Next honorees are shaping business as a force for social and environmental good, visit the series hub.